Re: What’s the point of the Deathly Hallows? Not the book, but the Hallows?

[mooseming]

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Annemehr" <annemehr at ...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda" <exslytherin@> 
> wrote:
> 
>  SPOILER SPACE
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> 
> Anne:
> 
> Well, to start with the mundane: once LV had kidnapped Ollivander 
> (back before the beginning of OoP), DD knew/suspected he would 
> eventually have access to Ollivander's knowledge of the legend of 
the 
> Deathstick.  It must have been no later than this point that he 
began 
> to formulate a plan to keep LV from mastering it.
> 
> Skipping ahead to the end now, the final defeat of LV involved two 
> phases:
> 
> 1) Harry allows himself to be AKed in the forest.  This fulfills 
the 
> not unexpected reprise of Lily's sacrifice (though personally, I 
did 
> not expect it to be the *exact same sacrifice* - how thick could 
LV 
> get?).  The fact that it was merely a Near Death Experience for 
Harry 
> is somehow due to his blood running in LV's veins (I know what DD 
> said in "Kings Cross," I just don't get it).
> 
> 2) In the Great Hall, Harry and LV reprise the duel in the 
Graveyard 
> of GoF, right down to the AK and Expelliarmus spells cast.  This 
is 
> the fulfillment of the wand thread that ran from Harry's visit to 
> Ollivander's in PS/SS (the introduction of the "brother wands")
> through Priori Incantatem in GoF and on into all the wand lore of 
DH.
> 
> Phase 1 seems to be about the higher magic of love -- which LV 
> doesn't understand, even amongst his DES (e.g., Snape and 
Narcissa). 
> And I think Lyn is right that Phase 2 is about the perils of 
seeking 
> power -- it brings us full circle from  the first book wherein 
> Quirrell!Mort declares that there is only Power, and those too 
weak 
> to seek it.
> 
> Going back to the problem of DD's original intention that the 
Elder 
> Wand  be "worthless" (i.e., merely ordinary) at the time he willed 
> Harry and Hermione the Resurrection Stone and the book:  
> 
> Rather than wanting Harry to collect the Hallows, DD intended 
Harry 
> to know that the Elder Wand would not be the powerful weapon in 
LV's 
> hands that LV thought it would be.  That much turned out to be 
true, 
> even though it transpired that the wand was loyal to Harry instead 
of 
> to no-one as DD had planned.
> 
> Harry himself came to that conclusion at Shell Cottage: "Am I 
meant 
> to know, but not to seek?  Did you know how hard I'd find that?  
Is 
> that why you made it this difficult?  So I'd have time to work 
that 
> out?" [DH ch. 24, p. 483 US -- and reiterated in ch. 35 "Kings 
Cross"]
> 
> And I think  Harry was meant to, and did, reject assembling all 
three 
> Hallows.  As has been variously pointed out by Lyn and Mandy, the 
> Cloak is rightfully Harry's and necessary to his task, and the 
Stone 
> was helpful on his journey into the Forest.  But he dropped the 
> Stone -- and relinquished ownership -- before he ever laid hands 
on 
> the Wand.  Even though he was master of the Wand at that time, I 
> believe he never truly possessed all three at once -- or, if he 
did, 
> he broke up the set before facing LV.  His victory did not come 
from 
> the power of the Hallows; it came from the supposed vulnerability 
of 
> love and the ironic weakness of the Elder Wand.
> 
> Like Lyn, I feel the need to apologise for being saccharine here, 
but 
> it seems to me this is what JKR intended to say -- I'm just the 
> messenger.
> 
> Of course, whatever happened with the Wand, DD pasted a 
> big "sacrificial pig" sign on Snape's back since he knew the 
manner 
> of his death would make Snape appear to be the master of the 
Wand.  
> If anyone can tell me how things would have gone better for Snape 
had 
> DD died with his wand in his hand, please, let me know.
> 
> Anne
>

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Sometime very soon I'm going to stop obsessing  about this wand 
thing! Thank you for your level headed answer it is a relief to know 
that it isn't quite the enormous plot hole I had imagined.

Yes, Ollivander's disappearance would give DD the heads up that 
Voldy was going for the wand, I was a tad confused because DD said 
Voldy didn't know about the Hallows (indeed nor does Ollivander) but 
they both know about the Elder wand as a lone item so that's covered 
then (phew).

DD had hoped to defuse the wand with his cunning euthanasia play, 
which as you rightly point out rather does for old Snape target 
wise, he failed as we know. For me this is where it still remains 
quite creaky, even though, as you say, DD intended Harry to know 
that Voldy was mistaken in his belief that he had an all powerful 
weapon, he still set up the willed items so that Harry could be 
distracted by the Deathly Hallows when, if his knobble the 
Deathstick plan had worked, it would have been a wild goose chase.

It remains unclear if the Deathly Hallows triumvirate still 
functions after the Elder wand becomes simply a wand, which gives us 
some wriggle room. Also, I suppose we could speculate that DD 
couldn't be sure his wand plan would work out and he left Harry an 
alternative solution. But, as with much of this book, it all seems 
overly convoluted and in the end it detracts, for me, from the story 
as a whole.

Ironically I quite like the idea of the DH. A sword, a shield and a 
magic stone which brings strength to the hero and yet they are all 
compromised.  The sword is in his enemy's hand, the shield cannot be 
used honourably and the stone, whilst giving strength, abuses the 
ones he loves. Its an idea that deserves more room than it got!

`Hallows,' murmured Dumbledore, `not Horcruxes. Precisely.' DH, 
King's Cross, CH 35.

I feel JK should have introduced the Hallows at the same time as she 
introduced the HRX. HBP would have been a better book for it and DH 
wouldn't have become the spaghetti junction of plot lines that it 
appears to be.

Good to have some cool heads around.

Regards
Jo