Black Widower!Snape - repost from TOL (long)

dungrollin spotthedungbeetle at dungrollin.yahoo.invalid
Sun Jun 10 12:35:27 UTC 2007


Kneasy:
> We sort of know when he 'came back' but we don't know when he 'went 
> over'.
> Now suppose that at the interview he wasn't a DE, that it was the 
passing of this little gem of information on to Voldy that got him 
promoted to the elite band of brothers that are the DEs - as a 
reward. Mind you, it'd be the sort of offer he wouldn't dare refuse, 
I think.
> 
> Further suppose that he wanders back to chez Snape pleased as Punch
> about his enhanced career prospects - and the missus hates the idea.
> She tells him so - every day for the next X months; just won't shut 
up about it. Voldy decides that this pestilential dissenter ought to 
be silenced, she's getting on his nerves and the lads are getting 
twitchy.
> Zap!
> All is blissful silence, what a relief - until the remorse sets in 
with Sevvy.
> Works, do you think?
> 

Well, yeah. Sort of. If Mrs Snape was so dead against the idea, she'd 
hardly be likely to be in contact with Voldy. Certainly not enough to 
get on his nerves, unless she was *very* dim.


> > Dung:
> > We've got

> > 
> > 1. The prophecy was delivered anything up to half a year before 
Harry 
> > was born.
> >  "On a cold, wet night sixteen years ago, in a room above the bar 
at 
> > the Hog's Head inn."
> > - OotP ch37 UK p740.
> 
> Not happy with this.
> I was until this morning when I was checking canon about Syb's 
> Pensieve turn, and then what DD says with the 'nearly' hit me.
> Before then I'd sort of assumed that it had happened Sept/Oct/Nov
>  '79, more or less in agreement with the Lexicon - but now... I 
don't 
> know.
> The gap could be anywhere between 9 months and 1 month.
> Nine is OK, no problem; a gap of one sends most of your theory down
> the tubes, 'cos Draino would already have been born.
> Need some sort of confirmation from somewhere.

Ok, you're going to have to clarify, because I see one `nearly' from 
DD.

"It meant," said Dumbledore, "that the person who has the only chance 
of conquering Lord Voldemort for good was born at the end of July, 
nearly sixteen years ago."
OotP ch 37 UK p 741

He's referring to Harry's birth, not the timing of the prophecy. How 
are you interpreting this?

> > Kneasy:
> > > But for Blackwidower to be valid, his offcut had to have been 
> > killed 
> > > before he swapped sides yet had to have been old enough to be 
> > > depicted as 'a small boy', (not a baby) in the memory flash.
> > > So to work, Snape!Son would probably have to have been born at 
> > > least 6 months before Harry.
> > > Which would suggest that a July-born Snape!Son theory 
(therefore potentially Voldy's!Bane, so I'd better knock him off, 
signed Voldy) 
> > > might have a glitch.
> > > Assuming I'm correct, any chance you can nudge it back on track?
> > 
> > Dung:
> > Ah. I hadn't actually tied in Snape's memory in the occlumency 
> > lessons to this, but now I come to think of it, it was the 
original prompt for the theory, wasn't it? Damn. Hang on.
> > 
> > ::muted sounds of swearing as books are hurled across the room::
> > 
> > It could work if Voldy didn't detect Snape's hand in helping 
Regulus until a while afterwards. The latest it could happen anyway 
would be say, a month before Harry was targeted, we need time for 
Snape to turn to DD, and spy at great personal risk for a bit before 
GH. Then we're talking about a 14 month-old baby Snape. 14 month-olds 
look pretty much like babies, too, rather than `small boys'.  
> > 
> 
> "But... But..." expostulated a gob-smacked Kneasy,
> If Snape has already turned to DD (that was months before GH), and 
> NailedSnape!Son hasn't happened yet, then the whole raison d'etre 
> for Blackwidower/Snape!Son is up the pictures.
> Can't have that. Dearie me, no.
> One of me favourite theories rip't untimely from the womb, t'ain't
> right... mutter...mutter...
> Your theory needs some work, I think.

That's not what I meant at all. Regulus dies the year Harry was born, 
so the year *before* GH, the year of the prophecy. The killing of 
Snape's family can happen any time up until he turns, which is not 
necessarily *months* before GH, all we know is that it was before GH. 
It could be a matter of days or weeks beforehand, Snape could have 
already been working at Hogwarts *before* he turned (if DD suspected 
that he was there to spy for Voldy, and thought it better to put 
Snape somewhere he could keep an eye on him, rather than risk letting 
him overhear any other job interviews).

I put the killing of Snape's family back to around the time of the 
birth so that we could have Regulus being one of the times Snape 
defied Voldy, but if Voldy didn't find out that Snape had helped Reg 
until later, we can put the murders much later, so that we can have 
the memory of the little boy being Snape!son. 

The killing of Snape's family must be the trigger which sends him to 
DD in search of revenge. If I'm right and his family was killed 
because they fulfilled the conditions of the prophecy, Snape must 
have defied Voldy three times. I put the prophecy around the 
Christmas before Harry et al were born, which, as you point out, 
works fine. You want to put the prophecy later, the latest I can have 
the prophecy is at the beginning of June, because we need time for 
the Malfoys to induce Draco early. It still works, I think, the only 
problem is that there's less chance Snape would have kept his 
incipient sprog quiet from Voldy. But that's no barrier.

1. Beginning of June. 
Snape overhears the prophecy. He is unnerved, as both he and Malfoy 
are expecting babies at the appropriate time. He goes to Lucius, and 
tells him what he heard. The Malfoys panic and induce Draco early. 
Snape doesn't want to do the same (for whatever reason), but he 
figures that since he hasn't defied Voldy three times, he's safe. 
Malfoy insists that Snape must tell Voldy the prophecy, otherwise he 
will do so himself.

2. First week of June
Snape passes Voldy the prophecy. Voldy tells him to tell no-one, so 
Snape makes sure Malfoy's going to stay quiet about his lapse of 
discretion, Malfoy assures him that as long as Snape's told Voldy, 
it's ok.

3. End of July
Snape lies about the birth date of his son. Say, he claims it was 
born a week earlier or later than it was. Voldy doesn't find out.

4. Some time in the year of the prophecy, could be anything from 
January to December, and doesn't really matter much...
Regulus wants out, Snape helps him, Voldy doesn't find out. 

Now it depends on where you want to put Snape's turning to DD, but in 
order to make it as compatible with the memory you so desperately 
want to be Snape, wife and son, let's put it at the end of September, 
so the `little boy' is around 14 months old. 

5. End September before GH.
Snape is working at Hogwarts, thinking that he's spying on DD for 
Voldy. DD knows he's a spy and is using him to pass on misinformation.

6. Snape has a wife and a small boy. Voldemort finds out (perhaps in 
the course of legilimensing Malfoy, or Narcissa, or even Snape 
himself) that Malfoy knows about the prophecy. He calls a suitably 
frightened Snape, and cracks open his mind, and thus discovers in 
addition that Snape lied, that his son *was* born at the end of July, 
and that he helped Regulus out when Voldy wanted him dead. In 
addition to telling Malfoy the prophecy that makes three defiances.

7. The killings, Malfoy intervenes to save Snape's life, though the 
exact circumstances are negotiable. All that matters is that Voldy 
caused the deaths of Snape's wife and son in a probably very 
unpleasant way. 

8. Beginning of October before GH.
Snape goes to DD with tale of remorse, and information that Voldy is 
now targeting the Potters, and offers to become a double agent. 

What did I miss?

But anyway, I definitely prefer the original version, with the 
Christmas prophecy. I still don't really understand why you want to 
put the prophecy so late on (particularly given what Trelawney says 
about when she started teaching). 

I don't think it's necessary that the memory flash was of Snape!son, 
either, in fact, I'm sticking with my original version of the theory. 
Was just trying to point out that it could be tweaked to make you 
happy.

Dungrollin





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