From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Sat Aug 30 20:49:55 2008
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:49:55 -0000
Subject: Great train gaffe?
In-Reply-To: <610165.65556.qm@...>
Message-ID: <g9cbpj+95b5@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, Mary Ann Jennings <macloudt at ...> wrote:
>
> Catlady wrote:
> 
> >>>But trains can travel with the engine at the back. It's called 'push'
> (even if that does contradict the words 'traction' and 'train'). I
> found a wikipedia article on push-pull:
> <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Push-pull_ train>
> "This configuration means that the locomotive never needs to be
> uncoupled from the train, and ensures fast turnaround times at a
> railway station terminus."<<<
> 
> My trainspotter husband informs me that push-pull trains were used on small branch 
lines in the UK where there were no turntables or reversing loops.  Long-range trains with 
multiple coaches never had the push-pull configuration because push-pull trains couldn't 
reach high speeds as derailment was a constant danger for tender engines travelling in 
reverse.  It's not just steam engines; diesel engines (and I can name a-plenty!) working 
fast, long-range trains also never ran in reverse in such a manner.  It was the introduction 
of HSTs (High Speed Trains) in the 1970s that eliminated the need for engines to run 
'round trains in the UK as these trains have engines at both ends.
> 
> Mary Ann, who doesn't make fun of her husband's diesel train obsession because she 
has several closets full of knitting yarn.  Tit for tat, and all that.

Geoff:
I speak as a train enthusiast of over 50 years in the UK. Your husband 
is not quite right about the use of push and pull in the UK.

Certanly in the age of steam, push and pull was limited to local trains 
on branch lines. These were never worked by tender engines because 
locomotives had to be specially equipped to work these trains because 
the driver was in the front of the leading coach which had windscreens 
and had the driving controls duplicated in his cabin.

However, there is quite a lot of high speed push and pull operation 
today. The Bournemouth electrification scheme in 1967 saw a form 
of push-pull in that a four coach high power multiple unit pushed up 
to eight unpowered coaches, in one direction of the journey.

In the 1980s use was also made of push and pull on the Edinburgh-
Glasgow express trains using fast class 47 diesel-electrics at the rear 
again in one direction. There was a scare about this use in 1984 when 
one of the trains hit a cow at speed when the driving coach was leading 
and the resulting derailment led to several deaths. One outcome of this 
was that the leading coach being pushed on any service now only contains 
luggage space apart from the driver's compartment.

However, in the late 1980s when new locomotives were delivered for the 
West Coast Main Line between Euston, Manchester and Glasgow, these 
made total use of push and pull travelling at over 100 mph and have only 
recently been taken off the service when the new Pendolino tilting trains 
were introduced. When the East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to 
Edinburgh was electrified in the early 1990s, push and pull was again 
employed and these units operate up to 140 mph.

With regard to the Hogwarts Express, JKR does not /specifically/ state 
at which end and which way round the train engine is; this could be a 
suggestion prompted by the film. There is also no reason why the 
locomotive should not run round its train while the passengers were 
getting settled. I saw this happen only today because I live just 6 miles 
from the longest preserved railway operating in the UK.

If there are any transport enthusiasts reading this, you might like to 
visit my website -  
www.geoffbannister.com 
- and follow the links to Transport of Delight where you will find a large 
selection of photos of UK rail and road operation both past and present.









From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 31 23:43:18 2008
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:43:18 -0000
Subject: Great train gaffe?
In-Reply-To: <g9cbpj+95b5@...>
Message-ID: <g9faam+mg34@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> If there are any transport enthusiasts reading this, you might like
> to visit my website -   www.geoffbannister.com  - and follow the
> links to Transport of Delight where you will find a large 
> selection of photos of UK rail and road operation both past and
> present.
>

Transport of Delight! The excellence of the pun makes up for most of
my real-life rail experience not being so delightful, such as Amtrak
between Philadelphia and NYC in the 1980s, with fleas.