{groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Heidi's comments

[Paul Kippes]

Either Kelley or Dicy have the summaries.


----- Original Message -----
From: a_reader2003 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:20:11 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Heidi's comments
To: hpfgu-catalogue at yahoogroups.com

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" 
<kelleythompson at g...> wrote:
> From Heidi; her comments are in quotes, my own to you all are in 
> brackets:
> 
> Heidi:
> "Yahoo's t&c is irrelevant for the content of the posts; we cannot
> replicate the interface of yahoomort, though.
> 
> Club posts - there was no implied or express permission, so those 
> can't be used without permission *unless* the club member was a 
> yahoogroup member on or after September 30, 2000 (maybe the 15th - 
> not sure when the faq project was announced but I know it was 
within 
> that month). Post Sept 30 (or 15) all posts are usable, except for 
> that little bit from may-or-june of 2003 until the tou was 
remedied. 
> Posts made then can be used if the listie was still on the list in 
> jan 2004, when the revised terms were put into place."

Carolyn:

GROUP 1 POSTS TO CHECK (early Club)
The FAQ project was first announced to the members in Club post 5657 
(Aug 3rd 2000), and again on Aug 10th 2000 (6540).
Post 69 (Aug 25th 2000) in the main group (you found this one too 
Kelley), seems to me a very clear statement (including legal stuff) 
that Club archives were to be indexed in some way.
Message 1025 (Sep 5th 2000) does mention it all again, but not so 
clearly

GROUP 2 POSTS TO CHECK (Gap in TOU)
Posts 1st May 03- 1st Jan 04 run through from 56539-87884.


> Kelley:
> I can go through the membership records to determine people's join 
> and leave dates; what's the easiest way for me to find which of the 
> first 8800 or so messages are being used for the catalogue? 

Carolyn:
Paul is there some way you provide an auto summary of the Club posts 
1-7815, plus posts on the main group 1-1025, showing if they have 
been rejected or not? There is such a high reject rate on the early 
posts, that I am hoping we will have to check the authorship 
of 'only' about 2600 - I guess we could quickly re-order them by 
author, to spot the frequent posters/well-known names that, for sure, 
were members of the subsequent group after Sept 5th, leaving only 
relatively few to check more carefully.

Note - see my recent reply to David on how posts might be used in the 
final catalogue. There is some discussion about giving members access 
to the movie, OT and fan-fic sections of the reject list. If we did, 
we would have to do more checking, according to these guidelines that 
Heidi has given us. 


PUBLIC/PRIVATE ACCESS
> Heidi:
> "Legally, it will make no difference if the catalogue is 
inacessable 
> or accessable, but I suggest it not be google-able or otherwise 
robot-
> able. 'Socially', though people might be pissed if their real name 
> was on the post, and that was publicly accessable + googleable. If 
> the names of the posters aren't anywhere but within the yahoogroup, 
> it's no problem at all."
> 
> [Kelley: So, long as it's not publicly accessible, shouldn't be any 
> problem. Re "real name" being on the post somewhere, I'm thinking 
> that since it was apparently okay with folks to have this info go 
to 
> the list in the first place, and again, as long as the Catalogue 
> isn't 'public', we shouldn't have too many problems here, either.]
> 

Carolyn:
There was never any intent to make the catalogue public on the net, 
so this seems not a problem to comply with.



> Heidi:
> "If a post has been deleted, or if a member whose post was posted 
> during the 'no permission' times in 99-2000 and 2003, the post 
> content cannot be used anonymously, but the facts contained in it 
> (ie "This post is about Snape and his loff for Lily") can be. But 
the 
> post itself can't be in any database.
> 
> Same with the content quoted in another's post; it has to be 
removed 
> or summarized without using the original words. Per copyright, the 
> subject line, post number and author names do not have to be used, 
> but equal numbers might get upset if their names are used, or 
aren't. 

Carolyn:
Paul, would you be able to identify which posts have been deleted, so 
we can watch out for their content appearing in other posts, in 
addition to the other two groups of posts we have to look for?

I think that what we have to end up with is a long list 
of 'forbidden' posts, which have to be avoided because:

(a) they have already been selected for inclusion, BUT they do not 
seem to be part of the new Egroups after Sep 5th 2000, and can no 
longer be contacted for permission to use
(b) they joined AND left between 1st May 2003-1st Jan 2004
(c) the post has been deleted
(d) posts which quote deleted posts (we will have to go back to the 
Yahoo group to track threads for this I think??)

Is this a fair summary of what will be the 'problem' posts to watch 
out for?


Heidi:
> There is nothing preventing highlighting relevant parts of posts."

Carolyn:
This is good to know. It means we can devise some system for dealing 
with all of CatLady's portmanteau postings. 


All in all, I found this advice very encouraging. I think there will 
be relatively few posts which are a real pity to lose, once we have 
worked it all out carefully. And its great to be able to use the full 
text, rather than links as we originally thought we might have to.

Carolyn




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