TBAY

[carolynwhite2]

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, ewe2 <ewe2 at 4...> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 02:07:03PM -0000, CarolynWhite2 wrote:
> 
> > KITCHEN SINK was/is nothing of the sort. It isn't even really a 
> > theory. 

Sean:
> I refer you again to #45498 where the acronym is spelt out. I'm 
quite aware of
> what the colloquial 'kitchen sink' means, it did filter down here 
to us
> colonials. In any case it looks very much like a theory, and 
related to
> DISHWASHER, even in the negative sense. Personally I don't see any 
dichotomy
> in the characterization of DD anyway, in fact I think it 
strengthens DD's
> position.

Carolyn:
#45498 is by Pippin, who doesn't support MD at all, quite the 
opposite. Also, filling in the acronym had been an ongoing joke since 
Marina first made the comment in #45348. First Eloise (#45374), then 
Pippin (#45390), then Pip (#45401) all couldn't think of anything. 
Finally Pippin made something up, which survived one post; it's not a 
serious theory - PRESSURE COOKER was the one they were all really 
discussing.


Sean:
> That's not the impression I got, and you can scream 'wrong wrong 
wrong' at the
> top of your voice as much as you like. My impression is that TBAY 
was as much
> intimidating as admired. I never said it wasn't valid, but it 
certainly wasn't
> easy to join in. Not everyone had that skill, not everyone wanted 
to build
> theories on top of each other and destroy them. The trouble with 
TBAY was that
> it was too successful as an entertainment and a focus in itself, and
> discussion around it tended to focus on acronyms and positions it 
presented.

Carolyn:
You continue to sound as though it is somehow wrong for there to be 
anything whatsoever on the list that can't be followed by a two year 
old. And the acronyms used in TBAY were widely and consistently used 
in non-TBAY style posts, as is seen in the run of posts referred to 
above. People ducked in and out of the style as it pleased them. 
There was no rule you had to respond in TBAY format to points raised 
in those posts, and lots of people didn't.

You comment that 'the trouble with TBAY..' as though that is some 
finally agreed verdict by most people. This isn't the case, many 
people enjoyed it then, and continue to do so now, and would like to 
see it return. You didn't, you are entitled to your view, but don't 
try and make it sound like a consensus.


 Much easier to talk about what TBAY said than to add to TBAY 
yourself.
> I doubt a quarter of the List at the time even made head or tail of 
TBAY let
> alone felt qualified to make a contribution. So as a "style" it was 
singularly
> unsuccessful, as a "focus" it was wildly so. I'm oddly reminded of 
Monty
> Python takeoffs of "serious" BBC investigative-type current-affairs
> programmes. Yes, TBAY were the Monty Python of the List. It all 
makes sense
> now.

Carolyn:
Again, you are making assumptions that you can't prove and which are 
irrelevant. There is no correlation between the number of people who 
do or don't like a style and whether it is 'successful' as you term 
it. 

You could use such a criteria if you were running some kind of 
marketing campaign, where the objective was for the maximum number of 
people to understand a sales message, but that is not the point of 
contributions on HPfGU.

Every post is a personal take on the series, and if some people do 
not understand what someone has said that in no way invalidates what 
has been written.

And Monty Python is the wrong analogy to use if you are wanting to 
criticise apparently elitist writing, since those shows and their 
scripts have now become completely entrenched as part of the cult 
history of satire.


> 
> 
> Now you're getting paranoid and more than a bit elitist, if I may 
say so. Us
> idiots are quite happy for you to put on the TBAY show, just don't 
expect us
> to do any different than before. We never stopped you in the first 
place.
> Lampooning people because they didn't join in is silly.


Carolyn:
I was not part of the list during the main TBAY period, only towards 
the end, just post-OOP. I don't think I've ever posted in TBAY style 
on the main list, once or twice maybe some posts edged towards it. 

As I've said above, no one was obliged to respond in that style, but 
denigrating the people who did just because you personally find it 
difficult to follow is not helpful.

My opinion, which I will not retract, is that the list is a duller 
and poorer place without TBAY.

> 
> > Carolyn
> > ..getting heated, and eyeing up that length of rope.
> 
> Any last requests? <duck>
> 
> Sean


..why yes, Sean, that as you are standing there with the noose around 
your neck, that you listen respectfully as MD is read out to you, in 
order for you to atone for your sins and beg forgiveness in the 
hereafter.