section 3 of the stuff I pasted

[quigonginger]

SECTION 3:  WIZARDING WORLD

3.2.2 Relationship with the Muggle World
Ginger (2583):
"relationship with the Muggle World". It started as 554 posts, and 
now has been hacked to.... only 335. Really. That's all I could hack 
out of it. It is such a wide category that there was little 
repetition (oh, a few threads about how Muggleborns find Diagon Alley 
and why Muggles let the kids attend Hogwarts), but a lot of posts 
that really didn't belong there. 

My suggestion: I propose we rename the category "Garbage Scow for 
every blessed post ever written in which the word 'Muggle' appears". 

OK, I'm kidding. It would be nice in the future if we drew a 
distinction, though. For example: if a post talks about how a young 
wizard would go about getting a Muggle drivers' license, then it 
belongs there; if it only mentions that the age for Apparation is the 
same as the age at which British Muggles get their licenses, then it 
does not. 

Now on to the serious suggestion. In tackling this massive category, 
I divided the posts into 4 categories: 

Family (includes Muggle-born students and mixed marriages), 
Culture (indludes technology, dress, language, education...), 
History/Politics (includes government, but not the Political 
Comparisons, which is already a sub-category), and 
Other. 

Other is a really wide category. I propose that we make these sub-
categories, in addition to the PC category (which I now have to re-
review as there were many posts that I put there whilst weeding the 
main category). If we did that, Other would just be the main heading. 
The posts would stand as follows: 
Main: 49 
Family: 63
Culture: 121 
History/Politics: 107 
Political Comparisons: about 50 at this time, but still to be re- 
reviewed. Should only change by a few. 

Ginger (2602) :
Yes, I want both H/P and PC. They are a bit similar, but there is 
enough difference and enough posts to merit both sections. 

Basicly, H/P is about the relationship with the MW in the fictional 
setting, and PC is about how it compares to actual RL stuff. 

H/P covers things like comparing the Apparation age to that of 
driving age, how a Wizard would go about getting a license to drive a 
Muggle car, the ethics of obliviation...things like that. 

The PC category is mostly comparisons of the WW situation to Hitler, 
Northern Ireland...things like that.

3.2.5 Medals/Awards/Titles (reference to 3.5.2.1 Witches, Warlocks 
etc)
Ginger (2546):
I reviewed 3.2.5 (titles, awards, whatever) and noticed that a lot of 
the posts looked familiar. Then I realized that DD has a lot of 
titles and that Warlock, Mugwump and Wizard are among them. Having 
reviewed the category of "differences between warlocks, wizards, 
etc." (now 12, was 137 million), I found that a lot of those posts 
actually do fit in both categories. I culled greatly in 3.2.5, and 
just kept those that talked about how these apply to DD and his 
titles, plus a couple of interesting (?) posts giving definitions. 
I propose we henceforth make ourselves aware of the existance of both 
categories and resolve to choose one or the other when coding. Save 
the ones about DD for 3.2.5, and those that are just definitions for 
the other. Groovy?

3.3.6 Rules and Ethics
Ginger (2588):
I finished 3.1 through 3.3. Just one note: I added a definition under 
3.3.6 (rules and ethics for using magic). 

There seemed to be some confusion as to what it means when a 
person "can" do something. I added in the definition to check 3.8.0 
(JKR's rules). Asking if someone if physically capable of using magic 
to do something in JKR's world goes under 3.8.0. Asking if it is 
permissable is under 3.3.6. Sometimes they do overlap. 

Oh, yes... under 3.3.5 (underage magic) we have quite enough posts 
along the lines of "Why did Harry get in trouble for the pudding when 
________ didn't get in trouble for __________?", at least as it 
involved book 1-4 canon. I'm sure there will be a lot said about the 
Dementors in book 5. 

I did some shifting around in the govt. section, but I think some of 
those categories may have been added later as it was mostly in early 
posts. Also (did I say "just one note?") please watch in the 3.3.1 
through 3.3.4 sections. They do overlap quite a bit, so please try to 
code to that which applies "best" rather than all or several. 

3.8.1 Magical Ability
Dot (2536):
But I did finish going through Magical Ability. Now, the content of 
this category bears almost no relation to the definition. I've made 
some changes, but not all of them, because I want some advice on 
whether we need new categories, and whether some posts can be chucked 
into already-existing categories. 

This is how it currently stands: Of 367 posts... 

138 shouldn't have been in this category for one reason or another 
(mostly because they should be in WW genetics or barely mentioned 
magical ability at all, e.g. the Philip Nel question on class), and 
have been (or rather, are being) uncoded. 
8 of these were assigned to no other category and will therefore 
rejected as `adds nothing new' (I checked they really did add nothing 
new). 

Leaving 229, of which: 
106 refer to the magical ability of specific characters 
Harry: 33 – all of which will be uncoded since they're already under 
Harry's protection/ training/ powers. (Those that aren't coded there 
I'll just uncode, since I assume Anne doesn't want me chucking posts 
back in that she's chucked out). 
Dumbledore: 5 – to be uncoded since they're already under DD's 
abilities. 
The DE's (Peter Pettigrew, Barty Crouch Jnr et al): 10 
Hagrid: 5 
Ron: 4 
Neville: 15 
Fleur: 1 
Sirius: 3 
Lockhart: 1 
Lupin: 1 
Snape: 1 
Fudge: 1 
Draco: 6 
The Weasley family: 2 
Voldemort/Tom Riddle: 15 
Multiple characters: 3 
I reckon all discussions of a character's magical ability should stay 
with the character, (DD and Harry already have their own codes for 
that), and indeed dimly remember Miss saying something along those 
lines when I started the review an embarrassingly long time ago. And 
the same would go for house elves and centaurs. Since the multiple 
character comparisons of magical ability can't (or shouldn't) be 
coded to all characters, I'll leave them in here for now, unless 
anyone has a better suggestion.) 

Continuing: - 
8 refer to the identity of the muggle/squib who will exhibit magical 
ability late in life (do we need a code for this? There aren't many 
posts yet, but it's a recurring topic.) - 
9 on how important Magical power is in casting/resisting 
unforgivables (should I put them under unforgivables?) - 
11 refer to house elves' magical ability (I'd keep them with house 
elves) - 
1 refers to Centaurs' magical ability (to stay with centaurs) - 
9 on the powers Voldy transferred to Harry at GH (is there a 
convenient code for this? I can't find one that isn't very general.) -
 
32 on whether muggles/squibs can make potions, what are the 
differences between wizards and muggles, can muggles use magical 
objects (broomsticks etc). 

The 32 posts on whether muggles/squibs can make potions, can muggles 
use magical objects (broomsticks etc), and what are the differences 
(genotype/phenotype) between wizards and muggles: I'd like to put 
them (some may already be coded there) into WW lifespans, genetics 
and population estimates. I don't think anyone's reviewed it yet – is 
that right? There really are an awful lot of posts resulting from 
JKR's foolish comment about the magical gene being dominant, since it 
gives the impression that she might know what she's talking about, so 
the lucky reviewer may decide to split the category further. Yes/no? 

14 posts I've filed under `Misc', since they don't seem to fit in 
this category, but it's not immediately obvious where they should be. 
I need to spend a bit longer musing over the much-changed category 
list, I think. 

The remaining 53 posts, are actually about "what magical ability is, 
how it manifests itself, and how wizards use it to make things 
happen," which is the definition in the catalogue. 

Ginger (2541)- replying to Dot (2536): 
Correct as usual, Your Leaderness. I have finished it and believe me, 
any (and I mean ANY) posts that are not in that category right now 
have been banished by a strong charm. That category was a fright. 
(Was 206, now 134.) Many posts were over my head, so I kept those 
that didn't repeat what someone else had said. <shudder>

Dot (2551):
I decided to rev up the chainsaw in the end, so I won't bother you 
all by asking questions. Magical ability was three-hundred-and-far-
too-many, and is now 64. It will go down to 58 when I get my late 
bloomer code. 27 posts were rejected altogether, (pats self on back). 

New definition: "Not for relative ability of characters (leave under 
character codes), strictly: what magical ability is, how it manifests 
itself, how wizards use it to make things happen" 


3.8.4.1 Memory Charms
Debbie (2572) responding to Kelly:
> I'm about to start reviewing 3.8.4.1 Memory Charms, and I wanted to 
do > a little planning in advance. Do you think MemoryCharmed!Neville 
> should be a category to itself, under 2.5.4 Neville Longbottom, or 
> should I keep those in this category? A quick scan shows that 99% 
of > the posts here discuss Neville. 

My vote is to keep all speculation about whether Neville was Memory 
Charmed under 2.5.4. It would be nice to have a subcategory, but we 
could probably live without one for now. 

> Also, Debbie, did you toss out a lot of Neville-related posts as 
Adds > Nothing New? Plenty of the posts here don't have the Neville 
code, > and I'm hoping that's because you kicked them out, and I can 
do the > same. :) 

At 345 posts, 2.5.4 is already chock full of Memory Charms of every 
description. I say toss them out of 3.8.4.1 unless they talk about 
the operation or effects of the charm itself. 



Kelly (2597):
I finally finished reviewing 3.8.4.1 Memory Charms. I made the 
decision, with the input of the group, that all the posts under 3.8.4 
Spells, potions & incantations will be ones focusing on the magical 
process itself, not the resulting characterizations and plotlines 
associated with them. 

In this particular case, that means that MemoryCharmed!Neville and 
all its variants shall remain under Neville, Longbottom torture, a 
few dozen acronyms, and whatever other character codes are deemed 
necessary, but for my purposes they went in the trash. Must admit, 
though, it was slightly traumatic for me to place the Still Life with 
Memory Charm and Memory Charm Symposium posts in my discard pile. :-) 
That conversation was one of the first ones I ever read on this list 
(and one of the resons why it took me so long to finish this review; 
it's so easy to be distracted by an Elkins thesis). 

3.8.4.1 Memory Charms --------------------- Originally: 169 Now: 38 
Mechanism, process, regulations, morality, etc. of memory charms. 
Only put character-specific posts (e.g. Neville, Harry, Bertha 
Jorkins) here if the discussion is centering on the specific 
mechanism of the memory charm. So, for example, a discussion of 
whether Neville has been memory charmed (or any variant thereof) and 
why and by who does not belong here, but a discussion of whether a 
memory charm could produce the specific symptoms that Neville shows 
can.

3.8.4.2 Wolfsbane
Kelly (2625):
3.8.4.2 Wolfsbane Potion
------------------------
Originally: 59
Now: 44

Discussion of the potion... what's in it, how it works, required
dosage, inventor, side effects, etc.  Removed a few passing reference
posts and a few that were discussing events (specifcially, Shrieking
Shack II) with mention of the potion only as a plot device.

Regarding overlap with lycanthropy and werewolves, I think this
category was already pretty well distinguished from those two.  There
were a few posts cross-coded both here and in Lyncanthropy which
discussed possible reasons why Lupin's tranformation seemed delayed on
the SSII night, e.g. whether it was a side effect of regular Wolfsbane
use, or whether that was normal behavior for a werewolf.  I think
these can comfortably stay in both categories, so I left them alone.


3.8.4.3 Vertiaserum
Kelly (2646):
3.8.4.3 Veritaserum ------------------------ Originally: 84 Now: 46 

All you ever wanted to know about veritaserum... How does it work? 
Does it uncover absolute truth or only truth as someone remembers it? 
When is it ethical or legal to use it? Can it overcome Memory Charms? 
How reliable is it? There were tons of "Why didn't ____ use 
Veritaserum on ____ to corroborate/disprove his/her 
story/alibi/excuse?" I kept the good responses to these questions, 
but please leave the questions out. Discussions concentrating of the 
wizard court system without discussing any specifics of veritaserum 
should stay out of this category as well. Also, the lie 
detector/sodium penthanol it's-not-100%-accurate-so-not-admissible-in-
court analogy has been used to death, so no more of those. 

3.15 Geography
Kelly (2559):
Quiet around here, isn't it? Let's liven things up with a little 
magical geography. This should complete the 3.15 categories. 

The description for the main Geography/Location of WW Places category 
states that these codes are reserved for discussion of where these 
places may be located and should not be used for discussion of 
incidents that took place there. I allowed a little leeway in this 
respect when I could think of nowhere else to move the discussion. 
For example, discussion of who owns the Riddle House is still in the 
Riddle House subcategory. However, discussion of the protection on 
the Dursleys' house definitely does not belong in the Privet Drive 
category, since there are other codes devoted to that discussion. 

Also, Carolyn, when I reviewed 3.15.14 The Leaky Cauldron an eon or 
so ago, I asked that it be combined with 3.15.2 Diagon Alley, since 
the former is a tiny category that often overlaps the latter. Is that 
still possible, or was there specific disagreement? 

Below, I've listed the main discussions found in each category. 
However, the definition for each is just "Where is ___ located, with 
respect to real geography and with respect to other Potterverse 
locations? What are it's physical attributes?" Okay, on to the 
stats.. 

3.15.3 The Burrow ----------------- Originally: 44 Now: 38 Where in 
the UK is Ottery St.Catchpole? Where is the Burrow in relation to the 
town? What does the house look like (to either witches/wizards or 
Muggles)? 

3.15.4 Godrics Hollow --------------------- Originally: 67 Now: 45 
Where is it? Is it a house or town or whatever? (now known, but it's 
a relatively small category, so I kept these). What happenned to the 
house/land post-Voldy? What is the muggle to wizard ratio there? NOT 
for other Godric-related discussion (etymology, ancestry, etc) or 
confrontation night discussion. Definitely don't need any more one- 
or two-liners suggesting it's in Wales based on Hagrid's fell-asleep-
over-Surrey quote in PS/SS. 49473 Magic space/geography in general 

3.15.5 Little Whinging/Privet Drive ----------------------------------
- Originally: 37 Now: 14 Where is Little Whinging? NOT for discussion 
of the protections on the Dursleys' house (use 3.5.4 Blood protection 
at Privet Drive/Lily's sacrifice) 

3.15.6 Riddle House ----------------------------------- Originally: 
20 Now: 19 With one exception, all the posts here were speculation on 
the current owner of the Riddle House. Not really a geography 
discussion, but as I could think of no better place to move these 
posts, I left them here. 

3.15.7 Malfoy Manor ----------------------------------- Originally: 8 
Now: 6 Right now, just a discussion of what qualifies as a manor. 

3.15.8 Azkaban ----------------------------------- Originally: 9 Now: 
7 Where is Azkaban? 

3.15.9 MoM ----------------------------------- Originally: 18 Now: 3 
Where are the Ministry of Magic offices located? NOT for other MoM-
related discussions, e.g. who works/worked there, government 
structure, DE connections, etc. 

3.15.10 Hogmeade ----------------------------------- Originally: 30 
Now: 23 Where is Hogsmeade in relation to Hogwarts? How is it 
protected from Muggles? What does it mean to be "all-wizard"? 

3.15.11 Durmstrang ----------------------------------- Originally: 74 
Now: 50 Where is Durmstrang located? I think every Eastern European 
and northern Asian country is hypthesized at least once, many 
accompanied by well-researched geographic and linguistic arguments, 
so don't add any more guesses unless really original and well-
written. I weeded out some repetition, as well as the glaring 
geographical errors (a surprising number of people place Albania and 
Bulgaria near the Arctic circle, or at least in northern Europe). On 
a side note, I trashed post number 20401 on the grounds that any post 
that includes the entire text of a Daily Digest in it doesn't deserve 
consideration, even if it contains a brilliantly researched, life-
changing dissertation. :) (it didn't). 

3.15.13 Forbidden Forest ----------------------------------- 
Originally: 18 Now: 9 Where is the Forest in relation to the Hogwarts 
grounds? How large is it? Discussion of the forest as an entity (e.g. 
how dangerous is it?). There were a lot of "do werewolves really live 
there?" discussions; I kept those that discussed the nature of the 
forest, but removed those that strayed too far into discussion of 
werewolves themselves. 

3.15.13 Beauxbatons ----------------------------------- Originally: 
14 Now: 10 Where in France is Beauxbatons located? 

Carolyn (2563):
Kelly:
Also, Carolyn, when I reviewed 3.15.14 The Leaky Cauldron an eon or so
ago, I asked that it be combined with 3.15.2 Diagon Alley, since the
former is a tiny category that often overlaps the latter.  Is that
still possible, or was there specific disagreement?

Carolyn:
Sorry to have overlooked this, no problem and now done.

Kelly:
3.15.6 Riddle House
-----------------------------------
Originally: 20
Now: 19

With one exception, all the posts here were speculation on the current
owner of the Riddle House.  Not really a geography discussion, but as
I could think of no better place to move these posts, I left them
here.

Carolyn:
I think this is the right decision. There really isn't anywhere else
for them.