[HPFGU-Feedback] Welcome to HPFGU-Feedback

[Shaun Hately]

On 21 Nov 2003 at 1:40, Hebby Elf wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> Welcome to HPFGU-Feedback. We hope this forum will promote 
> discussion between yourselves, the members of the HPFGU groups, and 
> ourselves, the List Admin Team. We'd like to hear about your 
> concerns about the groups, your ideas for the groups, any 
> suggestions you might have. We also know you have questions, but we 
> thought we'd get the ball rolling by asking a few of our own to 
> start. <g>
> 
> If you could change one thing about HPfGU, what would it be?

Practically speaking - I'd like to see basic posting standards enforced. What I 
mean by that is people being expected to quote messages in a standard way - 
basically the way I am doing it now. The message you are replying to is indented 
by >

Messages the message you are replying to are replying to are indented > >

This is an internet standard - but more and more people aren't using it. There are 
a considerable number of people who reply to messages and there's no indenting 
at all - and then when someone else replies to those messages, there are 
complaints by people saying: "I didn't say that!". On a high traffic list like HPFGU, 
if consistent standards aren't enforced you wind up with problems.

Now, I know this would be fairly hard to implement and I'm not really expecting it 
to be - but that is the one thing I would change if I had power.

Well - there is one other thing, but it is totally impractical and unenforceable. I'd 
like to see people be told that it is expected that under normal circumstances, 
members will read (or at least glance at) every message sent to the list. I find it 
incredibly frustrating to see someone start a thread that has already been 
discussed over the last 24 hours - and it happens a fair bit, and if they'd bothered 
to read the list messages, they'd know that. There seem to be a significant 
number of posters who view the list as simply there for their convenience - for 
them to ask questions they have, but who aren't willing to take the trouble to read 
and reply themselves. My view is that on a discussion list, people should be 
expected to participate in both the asking and answering of questions - and if 
people aren't reading they can't do that.

Now - I know this is pretty much enenforceable. But I do wonder if the list would 
benefit by some sort of explicit statement being included somewhere that 
members are expected to participate in the list. Sure a lot of people would ignore 
it - but it might get some people thinking about things.

And I'm not (IMHO) an unreasonable person - I don't expect people to read every 
message all of the time - real life does get in the way sometimes - but I think 
expressing a view that the list is likely to function better if *most* people read 
*most* posts *most* of the time could be reasonable.

And even stronger - people should be asked, IMHO, to please read all messages 
in any thread they are participating in. I tend to write fairly detailed posts a lot of 
the time - and on occasion, I've noticed that somebody started a thread and I've 
made a detailed reply to it - and then twelve hours later, people who are just 
joining the thread at that point are asking the same questions I (or someone else) 
answered hours ago. Half the time when I write a post, I never see any sign that 
anybody has even read it - and I see plenty of signs that obviously people 
haven't. That can be pretty demoralising and I wonder if some people abandon 
interest in the list because they think they are being ignored. Not me - I get 
enough feedback to know my posts do get read by some people, and I really don't 
care a massive amount - but I do wonder if some people feel it's not worth 
bothering to post. And some discussion we've had at times - especially after OotP 
came out, where people were talking about their 'list strategies' and some people 
were saying they only read the 'best posters' and things like that - well, I can 
really see some people deciding it's not worth writing stuff nobody is going to 
read.

I don't know how to solve that problem - but I think expressing a view that:

(1) People should read all messages for any thread they are participating in.
(2) People should read as many messages on the list as they practically can.

might make some people less concerned that their messages are just going to be 
ignored.
 
> Should there be some formal recognition of good/long-time posters?

Ideally, yes - practically I'm not sure. I think in an environment where posters feel 
their posts are ignored (and I'm afraid I think HPFGU may be getting that 
reputation) acknowledgement like this might leave new members feeling very 
much like second class citizens.

Just one note I wanted to add.

I've been on e-mail lists for... well, over a decade now. I've probably been on 
nearly 1000 lists, several hundred of them actively at various times. I'm currently 
on over 1000. I run about a dozen lists - none as big as the HPFGU lists, but a 
couple have topped the 1000 poster level, and the 1000 posts a month level. 
These lists cover areas from hobbies up to political and educational advocacy.

My view is that electing list administrators is a *very* bad idea. I won't say it can 
never work - but I've very rarely seen it work. I do not believe HPFGU should go 
down that path. I think it would probably kill the list.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at ... | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia