Lots of Subjective Development History

[Amanda]

The presumption is, I believe, that unless an admin team member 
says "I Am The Voice Of The Team," we are speaking as ourselves, but 
just to be clear--I am speaking here as myself, neither on behalf of 
the team or officially.

Carolyn:
> In following through the recent admin row on OTC, one of the most 
> upsetting things for me was to see confirmed that there was a small 
> group of long-term/original members who had formed their own inner 
> sanctum to discuss ideas. I had heard this rumoured before, but 
> thought it was just one of the usual conspiracy theories. Mainly I 
> found it upsetting because I would just like to read what they were 
> thinking. Personally I wouldn't dare try to join in such rarified 
> discussions unless I had done a lot of thinking and research.

Let me clarify this one. That wasn't what happened. A former admin 
and long-term member formed his own group. It doesn't have any 
affiliation to HPFGU at all, except that there is some overlap in 
membership. 

It is not a "subset" of the main list or of the admin team, and his 
intent never was to siphon away any HPFGU support or involvement. He 
just wanted a smaller forum, with people known to him and who could 
foster the close-knit ambience he remembered from this list, when it 
was small.

It was invitation-only, which of necessity implies some exclusion. 
This is any group owner's right and option, and since it was a 
totally independent group, he could set it up as he preferred. 

It was the exclusion flip-side that upset some older listmembers--
some who were not invited, found out about the group and were quite 
upset not to be included; and some who were invited didn't feel 
comfortable unless anyone could join, and declined the invitation or 
left the group.

The main list didn't miss much--the members of The Old Crowd who were 
HPFGU members as well, tended to double-post to TOC and the HPFGU 
lists anyway. It was very much an "as well," not an "instead of."

Carolyn:
> One further point. Despite all the thunderous messages from the 
elves 
> about the rules for posting, it seems to me that they are violated 
> all the time by newbies, and I can't understand how this happens as 
> surely most of them must still be on moderated status ? Has the 
> system broken down completely ?

Caveat: This is totally my take on it--it's been quite a long time 
since I was an elf myself. (morphs into Amanda Binns) I will now 
delve into some history, so get yourselves comfortable. Other old you-
know-whats, if you have a different view or memory, please jump in.

When I joined the list, there were about 250 members, it was very 
much a small forum, and all kinds of discussion took place in 
addition to canon.

As the list grew, so did the volume. The Chatter list was established 
after a particularly fun, but off-topic, discussion on British food; 
I remember, because I was involved ("clotted cream" sounded vile to 
me, but in context, it sounded like a good thing). The regional lists 
came about to avoid having specialized discussions (i.e., of interest 
to a smaller group of people) on the main list. Etc.

Also as the list grew, so did the administration. The main focus was 
always preserving the atmosphere and the focus.

My point with this, is that this set of groups and the rules they run 
under is not the product of a bunch of people sitting down and 
drawing up areas, setting out guidelines. In a very real sense, it 
grew, very organically. List rules were first articulated, and then 
refined, to meet an evolving need.

The list rules, then, are the product of two things:
(1) an attempt to articulate, to put into words, what had been done 
by feel or instinct--in separating out Chatter, in separating out 
Movie--how much discussion of the book makes it "canon-based"? This 
is harder than it sounds. Many things that someone "just knows" are 
incredibly difficult to set down as uniformly applicable, hard and 
fast guidelines.
(2) an attempt to maintain the friendly and open atmosphere that had 
existed on the main list from the beginning.

It is only in the past year or so, I believe, that the list 
administration has been consciously trying to shift gears. Organic 
growth is inherently responsive, not directed. The fundamental shift 
being attempted is to move from being reactive (how do we meet this 
need that has arisen; how do we answer this question) to being 
proactive (how can we best plan to meet this need we foresee). This 
list is one manifestation of this perspective shift.

As to your question--remember you asked a question?--the origin of 
the rules, I believe, plays a big role in how they are applied. They 
came into being as evolved responses to evolving needs, rather than 
as planned-out clear distinctions. Many decisions are case-by-case 
and made in light of how the rule evolved and the original intent 
behind it.

The list doesn't see this, but the list rules have been revisited, 
debated, borderline posts discussed, etc., over and over and over. 
It's utterly thrilling, I can tell you. It continues to this day ("Is 
this pending post on the main list too off-topic?"). It will likely 
continue forever. The content is subjective to begin with, and the 
rules themselves are attempts to define the intuitive.

Many posts have a very high "gray area" factor, especially those of 
newer posters who haven't been around long enough for that "you just 
know" experience or intuition to kick in. When a post is borderline, 
and it is a newcomer, I believe the decision is often to let the post 
through, rather than to discourage new posters. (practicing elves? Is 
my perception correct?)

Posting to a list of 11,000-plus is terribly intimidating. It used to 
be like getting up on a table to talk to the people at a really big 
party. Now, it's like addressing the crowd at a major concert. Adding 
over-regulating admins (and many feel we *are* over-regulating 
admins) only adds to the intimidation factor.

The admins are responsible for enforcing the rules, yes--but do not 
despair of the ones that slip by. The new people will get it. You 
have to have been here for a long time to perceive it, but there has 
always been a very strong self-correcting aspect to this list. 

By this, I don't mean criticism or overt "you broke a rule!" posts--
tolerance has always been one of the best things about the list. What 
I mean is, rude, intolerant, or completely off-topic posts tend to 
get ignored. Tentative ones tend to be answered by more experienced 
posters, encouraging the author. Those which make a good point amid 
others of more doubtful worth, have their good point answered and the 
rest ignored. The reaction of the list itself is an inculturation 
process that all active posters assist with. Helping new members 
along, helping them "get it" has *never* been exclusively the purview 
of the admin team. [The thing is, there's an endless supply of new 
people. *sigh* It works out.]

Again, this is just my take. 

Okay, I've talked a lot. Be careful what you ask for, Carolyn, at my 
height I was one of the most prolific posters on the list and most of 
it was about Snape. (who is *not* a vampire)

~Amanda