About TBAY : what is expected from a listee ?

[Doriane]

Hello everybody, the weather's nice today, isn't it ?

Well, I have read all those TBAY-war-related messages (up to message 
176), while all the time trying to figure out my own feelings on the 
matter. So here goes.

When I came back to this list, earlier this year, it took me quite a 
while to start to understand what ever was going on with TBAY. And 
even longer to start getting a grasp on it. And still I often find 
myself going "???" when I read a TBAY post. So do I like TBAY posts ? 
I'd say rarely, and it depends. It depends on many things.

The most obvious one is the quality of the individual posts : how 
well do they read ? But that goes for any post.

Another one is their pertinence : was it really necessary to use the 
TBAY format, which, as many have pointed, contains a lot of fluff ? 
When I see a TBAY post where the format doesn't bring anything to the 
matter, I am a bit annoyed. Unless it is *very* well written :-)

And another one is their accessibility : how easy are they to 
understand when you're not a fanatic TBAYer ? And that one is a 
biggie. I'm not sure TBAY fans realize how much background and how 
specific a mindset are necessary to understand some TBAY posts. You 
have to know the theories, you have to know their personas, you have 
to know what happened before (some theorists are nice and give enough 
background info for any novice to understand, but some don't, which 
creates a *very* uncomfortable feeling of being left out) and finally 
you have to figure out the metaphors and other symbolic stuff (which 
I don't).

And I'm not even talking about *writing* a TBAY post...

The same goes for FILKs, by the way. It's a different format, which 
requires specific knowledge and likings. But the problem is not as 
acute with FILKs, since as far as I know that format is very rarely 
used for debating.

So my question is : what is expected of a basic listee ? When I got 
on the list, 3 years ago, I had the feeling that the requirements 
were quite simple:
- One had to read and speak English well enough to communicate 
feelings and opinions with others.
- One had to know what "canon-related discussions" meant. Well, 
actually, this one didn't even exist in my time, but it was kind of 
obvious to most members.
- And one had to have enough self-restraint not to insult the fellow 
list-members, and be polite in every circumstances.
And if one respected all 3 conditions, one could expect to enjoy 
*fully* the discussions on the list.

But it seems to me like those conditions have hardened since. Among 
others, the following conditions have come up :
- One has to read the *whole* material offered to them, *and* disgest 
it ! That material includes but is not restricted to : the HBFile 
(that one is logical), the Fantastic Posts, the Hypothetic Alley and 
ALL the archives !!
- As a consequence : one had better be on top of every theory that 
ever came up out there, and know everything that's already been said 
about anything.
(As a consequence of those two, we get A LOT of people beginning 
their post with "I don't know if that topic has already been 
discussed, I searched the Archives but couldn't find anything, so 
anyway I'm sorry if this has been discussed before and if it has can 
someone please point me to the right messages, thank you". That gets 
boring after a while, and it gives me the horrible feeling that this 
list is anything but welcoming...)
- And a third condition is : one has to familiarize oneself with 
unusual formats like TBAY and FILK, unless one prefers to miss out on 
some discussions. And if one just can't "get it", one will have to 
skip those threads.
And *that one* feels *particularly* unwelcoming to me...

So I repeat my question : what is expected of a listee ? To put it 
more simply : what is expected of *me* ? Is it not enough that I have 
some knowledge of English (which is not my mother language), that I 
know my books pretty well, and that I try to remain courteous (my 
apologies to anyone I might have offended in the past) ? Apparently 
not, since it's not enough to allow me to participate in ALL threads.

In other words, there are threads on this list that require not only 
tremendous specific knowledge, but also additional capacities or 
specific mindsets, just to participate in and enjoy. There's a word 
for that, it's discrimination.

Unless of course the basic standards have changed. Have they ?

If they have, then this should be mentioned, and members should be 
warned that if they do not meet those new requitements they won't be 
able to understand everything that's going on. Hard but fair. And it 
would probably reduce the membership of this list quite drastically 
for sure.

If they haven't, then discriminatory behaviours shouldn't be allowed 
to take hold. And people who request that other people have a 
specific mindset to understand them and who don't care about being 
understandable by everyone should be reminded what this list is 
about. If they want to have their own fun, they can go and create 
their own list somewhere else.

Note : this is not just a matter of *knowledge*, but most of all a 
matter of capacity and mindset. Discrimination by knowledge is 
impossible to avoid. When someone gets talking about alchemy, for 
example, they get me lost. But I don't hold it against them, because 
the only difference between them and me is a real-life learned thing. 
With TBAY it's different. In order to be able to just understand some 
TBAY posts (let alone participe), I not only have to acquire a great 
load of specific background, but I also have to develop (if that's 
possible) a very specific mindset. And that's unfair to me.

Or am I a below-average listee ?

Del