About TBAY : what is expected from a listee ?

[strom5150]

Some snippage of what Del said:
> 
> And another one is their accessibility : how easy are they to 
> understand when you're not a fanatic TBAYer ? And that one is a 
> biggie. I'm not sure TBAY fans realize how much background and how 
> specific a mindset are necessary to understand some TBAY posts. You 
> have to know the theories, you have to know their personas, you 
have 
> to know what happened before (some theorists are nice and give 
enough 
> background info for any novice to understand, but some don't, which 
> creates a *very* uncomfortable feeling of being left out) and 
finally 
> you have to figure out the metaphors and other symbolic stuff 
(which 
> I don't).

Now Danielle:

First of all, Del, let me address the final line of your post: IMHO, 
you are not a below-average listee, and I base that on having read 
many of your posts on the main list.

As I have read and reflected on this current TBAY war, um...I mean 
discussion, there are a few things I have come up with to say, and 
your post frames my thoughts well.

Like you, I do also get the "uncomfortable feeling of being left out" 
of TBAY posts. (Well, I get that with the really good regular posts, 
as well, to be honest!) But let's just address TBAY here. 

Some of them are great, some good, some bad, for the many reasons 
that have already been discussed. And it does often feel like an 
exclusive club, with high barriers to entry.

But here's the Big Point, I think:
The fact that I feel this way is NOT a problem with TBAY - it's MY 
problem.

If I want to join a new culture, I need to study and learn the group 
norms and mores of that culture. The members may make me feel welcome 
with kind words and encouragement, but in the final act it is UP TO 
ME to make myself an acceptable member of that group. Is this 
discrimination? Not IMO. One of the big problems I have with some 
people is that they believe that all cultures/groups should change to 
accept them. A person from Country A goes on vacation to Country B, 
and fails to study the cultural norms, fails to pick up even the most 
rudimentary aspects of the language, etc. - in short, the person 
expects everyone in Country B to adapt to him/her. Well, that's not 
how it works.

I know that to be a "good" resident of TBAY, I WILL have to read all 
or most of the prior TBAY posts. I WILL have to visit Hypothetic 
Alley to brush up on the theories. And, I will have to read the 
regular posts of TBAY residents, to get a better idea of their 
characters. This will be time-consuming work, even more so if the 
metaphorical style of the Bay is totally new to me. But, that's what 
it takes to become a member of another culture or group - if you want 
to do it correctly, and be a "good" member.

Again, I don't feel that this is discriminatory, though it may seem 
exclusionary at first. 

(Yes, there's a difference, IMO. Now, I'm not looking at a 
dictionary, but to me discrimination is barring people based on some 
inherent aspect of themselves that cannot be changed and shouldn't 
matter anyway. Exclusionary, the way I'm using it here, means that I 
may not have what it takes to participate yet, but I can change that 
and then enter the group. Please don't grab your dictionaries and 
correct me - I'm just trying to make a point so please take my words 
as I've presented them.)

TBAY does not discriminate - anyone can move in. But, as I stated 
above, you may feel excluded until you do what it takes to get up to 
speed on how things work there.

So, more snippage from Del:

> > And I'm not even talking about *writing* a TBAY post...


Danielle:

Again, I personally think that it's wrong to attempt to participate 
in the activities of a culture/group until you have observed it for 
awhile. Or perhaps if you have a mentor in the group who actively 
helps you become acclimated. Many members of TBAY seem open to 
providing guidance to newbies.

Del again:
> So my question is : what is expected of a basic listee ? When I got 
> on the list, 3 years ago, I had the feeling that the requirements 
> were quite simple:
> - One had to read and speak English well enough to communicate 
> feelings and opinions with others.
> - One had to know what "canon-related discussions" meant. Well, 
> actually, this one didn't even exist in my time, but it was kind of 
> obvious to most members.
> - And one had to have enough self-restraint not to insult the 
fellow 
> list-members, and be polite in every circumstances.
> And if one respected all 3 conditions, one could expect to enjoy 
> *fully* the discussions on the list.
> 
> But it seems to me like those conditions have hardened since. Among 
> others, the following conditions have come up :
> - One has to read the *whole* material offered to them, *and* 
disgest 
> it ! That material includes but is not restricted to : the HBFile 
> (that one is logical), the Fantastic Posts, the Hypothetic Alley 
and 
> ALL the archives !!
> - As a consequence : one had better be on top of every theory that 
> ever came up out there, and know everything that's already been 
said 
> about anything.

Danielle:

Yup, that's about it! ,<g>

Honestly, I don't have time for this either. But, I'm working on it. 
And, when I feel comfortable with everything about TBAY, I may just 
wander in. But again, it's up to me!

Danielle
(Who is not a b*tch, does not play one on TV, and hopes that nothing 
she said was insulting to anyone nor degraded their own comments and 
opinions in any way. Having said that, she dons her flame-resistant 
cloak in anticipation.)