Language (was : TBAY - my take)

[Doriane]

"naamagatus" wrote:

> As I see it, TBAY is a sophisticated format for discussion of 
> *cannon*. Since HPfGU is dedicated to discussion of *cannon*, I 
> don't think there are legitimate grounds for banning the TBAY 
> format.

The *subject* of the TBAY posts is not as much a problem as their 
*format*.

> Besides the "legalistic" aspect, I have to say (going with David's 
> party metaphor), that it's very rude to break off some people's 
> discussion, just because you don't like it, or feel left out. 

Yes, but according to the seminar metaphor, it's very rude to hold 
private discussions in a foreign language in the conference room. If 
you want to have private talks with a restricted number of people, go 
to a private room. As David pointed out, it's all a matter of which 
metaphor you consider.

> Dicentra pointed out that TBAY posts comprise only 3% of all the 
> posts, so it's not like they are monopolizing the discussion, is 
> it? 

No, I agree. But they make very interesting theories and points, in a 
language that many don't understand. And until someone 
else "translates" those posts, I can't understand them or participate 
in them.

> If you don't like it, then frankly, it's your problem.

You're not the empathic kind, are you ?

> Solution? Don't read them.

And what if I want to know what new exciting theory those crazy and 
brilliant people have come up with ? Or, and that happens *very* 
often, what if I come accross a "straight" comment or response to a 
TBAY post which triggers my interest and curiosity, and I want to 
know the whole of the original theory, and I get there and just don't 
understand most of it ? I have to do A LOT of guessing when it comes 
to understanding some TBAY posts...

> Feel left out? Well, nobody is giving you the cold shoulder on 
> purpose.

That's not necessarily the way it *feels* though.
How would *you* feel if I started discussing some finer point of the 
translation of "Harry Potter et l'Ordre du Phenix" with my fellow 
French listees, in French ? We might not *mean* to keep other people 
out (after all, who else but French listees would *care* about the 
French version !?), but we still would be doing just that. And you 
would be very quick to remind us that English is the official 
language on the list.

> If it bothers you so much - make the effort to 
> learn the rules and codes, and join in. If you can't or can't be 
> bothered, then again, that's your problem, not theirs. 

In other words : even though they speak a language that has NOT been 
officially approved and declared official on the list, they have a 
right to expect other listees to learn that language to communicate 
with them.

Language is a big issue for me. And considering the various 
nationalities and mother languages of the listees, not to mention all 
the different mindsets and various schoolings, I think it should also 
be a big issue on such a list as HPFGU. After all, I'm making a big 
effort to write in good enough English, and I try not to complain 
when some peculiar expression gives me trouble. So that whole TBAY 
issue is tough on me. Basically, I'm being told that I have to learn 
yet another "language" to understand and take part in some of the 
most interesting discussions on the list. And it's a language I have 
very little hope to ever master : my mind just doesn't work that way.
Well, I'm honestly trying to take it nicely, but yes I do feel 
rejected. I wouldn't have mentioned it if nobody had asked me, but 
since Admin did I feel I have a right to say so.
It's just like when I travel to my husband's home country, whose 
language I don't speak. His best friend, who speaks very good 
English, insists on speaking with my husband in their own language, 
even when I'm around with nothing else to do but listen to them, 
simply because it's easier for him (and we're talking about someone 
who can write songs and poetry in English, and does professional 
translations from English...). As a result, my husband spends all his 
time translating to me, at least until I find something else to do. 
So what happens usually is that I end up taking a book along and 
reading it each and every time we go to his place. Or rather, that's 
what *used* to happen, because now I don't even want to go there, and 
I'm not happy when he comes to see us. Instead of becoming good 
friends, which would have been best for everyone involved, we're 
turning into adversaries. And all of that just because he won't speak 
in English, even though he perfectly could. Does that remind you of 
anything ?

> Naama, thinking that when you give people a place to whine in, they 
> will

If you didn't want to hear people whine, why did you come here to 
start with ?

Del