Fandom, HP Fandom, HPfGU, Love, Language, and TBAY (long)

[msbeadsley]

> "naamagatus" wrote:
> > Besides the "legalistic" aspect, I have to say (going with 
> > David's party metaphor), that it's very rude to break off some 
> > people's discussion, just because you don't like it, or feel left 
> > out.

Del wrote:
> Yes, but according to the seminar metaphor, it's very rude to hold 
> private discussions in a foreign language in the conference room. 
> If you want to have private talks with a restricted number of 
> people, go to a private room. As David pointed out, it's all a 
> matter of which metaphor you consider.

I find the "foreign-language" metaphor exaggerated, self-indulgent, 
and self-serving. For one thing, TBAY "conversations" are not taking 
place in real time, with spoken dialogue whizzing past too fast for 
those who don't speak the "language" to capture, comprehend, 
or "translate." We are dealing with *written* material here, and 
timing loose enough to give most who'd like to translate plenty of 
opportunity to sit and decipher. (Me, I speak and write English. 
That's all. I know several dozen words in a couple of other languages 
and envy the h*ll out of anyone who is truly bilingual.)

The *words* used to write TBAY posts are English. TBAY is a dialect, 
or an accent, or English-language performance art, NOT a foreign 
language. And you know, although I don't have a hope in h*ll of 
understanding anything but spoken English, even *I* can get out a 
foreign language dictionary and glean the basic gist of something 
*written* in a foreign tongue. And I've done it when it mattered to 
me. (As a matter of fact, I developed the granddaddy of all crushes 
on a native French speaker many, many years ago in New York, and 
tried to learn French by writing him love letters, composed word by 
painful word, in his native language. I'm sure what I said came out 
something like "About thinking I stop you cannot. Duck poop." I was 
hoping he'd respond positively, love me back, and give me French 
language lessons. Instead he responded neutrally, sympathetically (in 
French), and was too gracious to instruct me. Shucks. Well, it was 
probably for the best. Not only was he married, it turns out he 
already *had* at least one mistress.)

The person who talked about her husband and his friend had a point. I 
think it is rude to her for them to converse regularly and at length 
in her presence in a language they both know she *cannot* follow or 
respond in. (And if I were her, I'd be using some *very* clearly 
defined words to my husband on the issue. Oh. Well. Unless I'd 
married that French speaker, who could have done anything he d*mn 
well pleased. At least until I learned to look in his eyes without my 
backbone wilting.) But again, this is spoken language. Again, this is 
a matter of *words* whose meanings she just does not have in her 
lexicon.

Somebody please quote a snippet of TBAY here and point out the other-
than-English words for me. (I *understand* this "foreign-language" 
argument is metaphor. Somewhat like TBAY is sometimes. Isn't *that* 
ironic?)

TBAY obviously has enemies beyond those who just don't like or get 
the format. There's a lot of history. H*ll, there's a full-blown feud 
going on, and, while ADMIN has expressed its intention of leaving 
TBAY on the main list, this has further infuriated those who perceive 
that ADMIN is and always has been pro-TBAY to the detriment of 
everyone else. I'm starting to get sick of the debate, and by 
extension, of TBAY. So I'm going to finish what I have to say here 
and then ignore this for a while, because I don't want that to 
happen. And I don't want it to happen not only because I want to keep 
liking TBAY, but because I sense that getting people fed up with the 
conflict could work in the opposition's favor. Not that I'm 
suggesting anyone would deliberately do such a thing.

On another, related note, there was some debate about whether HPfGU 
et al is a party or a seminar. I put in my two cents' worth. Then 
Dave came back and said, wait, it's more like letters to the editor. 
He or someone else also said that none of these metaphors are 
perfect. I would like to point out some things about the "letters" 
metaphor that are less than perfect. (Please excuse any repetition.) 
A newspaper consists of far more than just its letters column; while 
that's all the list IS. While the list has many, many lurkers, the 
general expectation is that anyone may/might post (and does); but the 
percentage of people in a paper's readership who ever sit down and 
write a letter to the editor is miniscule, and those to whom it ever 
occurs to do so isn't much bigger. The paper exists to address a 
readership, not to provide a forum for its readers to interact. And 
newspapers are profit-making entities; the people selecting which 
letters to publish are paid out of the same trough which is watered 
by advertising revenue. All that keeps HPfGU going is the tolerance 
of Yahoo (or something like it), love of things HP, and a willingness 
to volunteer their time and energy on the part of those who hold up 
the infrastructure. The only common ground the general readership of 
the paper have is that they are literate and have some interest in 
the world they live in. The list is made up of HP fans. Professionals 
have seminars; fans have parties (or conventions, which include 
parties, as well as many other things which are not lectures or  
presentations). Simple. IMO.

This is a *fandom*, people. SF Fandom used to be chock-full of 
mimeographed "apas" and "zines." You furnished however many copies of 
your own offering, and in return you received a copy of everyone 
else's once they were all bound together. This happened according to 
a set schedule, and people who got the apa or zine were generally the 
people who provided some pages with which to fill it. Fandom 
attracted many with something to say, and with many ways to say it. 
And zines, so far as I know, did not fill up with complaints about 
other members whose offerings consisted of fan art, fan fiction, 
verse, or even recipes for green Jello (very fannish) shooters. 
There's a reason fanfic is rampant; it's how a segment of fandom 
expresses its heart.  As is filk. They've both been around far longer 
than Harry Potter.

Note:  I have no problem with anyone who wants to just lurk. 
Sometimes I do it. (And I was a chronic lurker, or silent presence 
anyway, in filk circles, as I am not musical.) But let's face it, 
there wouldn't be a list without those who post. And there wouldn't 
be a fandom without those who show up, are visible, who post, write 
fanfic, compose filks, or *do something*. (Maybe the Bay is a "next" 
level, inspired by this virtual venue, and the criticism it is 
receiving is partly a rejection of innovation itself.) The Bay and 
those who are active there may have their faults, but there is no 
doubt that they are _participating in the fandom_. For other people, 
who choose different forms of participation, to assert that one sort 
has more intrinsic merit than another...well, while the words of the 
Hogwarts school song remain the same, everyone sings their own 
favorite tune. I imagine it's a head-splitting, howling 
cacophony...but no one in the narrative is complaining. And while 
some people accuse TBAY of being elitist and exclusory, TBAYers are 
not the ones asking for their own separate list area. (If nothing 
else, they want their brilliance admired, as we all do when we aspire 
to show such.) The trade off is that they *do* leave themselves open 
to be sneered at and pilloried by the list at large. The notion that 
they, with their 3% (or higher, but still tiny percentage) of list 
volume are somehow detrimental, continues to strike me as specious. 
As for the "is it canon" question, well, TBAY is *about* winkling out 
the clues in canon regarding what is likely to come next. Simple. IMO.

Okay. I'm done. If you have burning rebuttal to offer, please email 
me (unless, of course, it's everyone else you're trying to sway, not 
me); I'm leaving the Feedback building for now.

Sandy