[HPFGU-Feedback] Re: The Current Debate

[Iggy McSnurd]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: msbeadsley 
> 
> Can someone else please address this? I live with a computer nerd and
> asked him, "Is it possible to tell where in cyberspace messages,
> etc., originate from, i.e., the originating computer or ISP?" and he
> said, "Er, usually...at least sometimes."  

Iggy here:

It can be traced, if you have the resources and care to take the time.
In addition, if it ever comes down to a lawsuit, the court can subpoena
all routing records from Yahoo, and from there, through the original
ISPs once hose locations are discovered.  In some cases, you might not
be able to find the physical address used in a set incident, but you can
get the billing address of that given account.

> MsB:
>
>I imagine it would be
> harder to determine who was doing things like deleting files (no
> audit trail, I'm guessing) or siccing Yahoo on the group for
> infractions of their terms of use agreement (real, imagined, or
> somewhere along the spectrum of opinion as to what constitutes
> infraction). The other thing that occurred to me in response to
> Susan's post is that while "the Federal agencies that do this" likely
> do have the resources/ability to track down terrorists, or saboteurs,
> or cyber-stalkers...well, is that a suggestion that we "make a
> Federal case out of" this? In other words, it may be nontrivial to
> entities not so well equipped as the Bureau (or Department or
> whatever it is) of Homeland Security. This here stuff is extremely
> small potatoes; I can't imagine law enforcement getting very
> motivated to find HPfGU's, er, vandal.
> 

Iggy here:  

Actually, it already can be considered a Federal Offense.  It's
harassment, computer vandalism, destruction of records, and
misrepresentation... normally these would only be a state addressed
thing, but since this group not only crosses state, but international
lines, that does raise it to the level of a Federal case.  (Any crime
committed across state lines becomes a Federal Offense... if it happens
across international lines, it can optionally be raised a higher level
than that if you wish, but that would require the person/people in
question be committing these offenses directly against someone in
another country.)


> MsB:
>
> <snip>
> > Continually trying to involve those of us who are not part of the
> > original parties is unproductive and very disruptive.
> 
> But I'm guessing that's all that's left for those who feel a wrong
> has been committed. (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here
> and leaving out the "Hulk SMASH!" option.) They exhausted the
> administrative and/or judicial appeal process, such as it was, and so
> were left with the option of trying the case in the court of public
> opinion.

Iggy here:

There's a problem when you go to the "Court of Public Opinion," and
that's you shoot yourself in the foot if common opinion is against you.
There's also the fact that if you're rational up to a point, and then
lose it, you will suffer a public opinion backlash against you that is
more severe than if you were annoying but direct and honest from the
outset.  This backlash happens because people will often feel that you
were either playing yourself up for the sympathy vote and
misrepresenting yourself to them, or that you're unstable and
irrational.  (I'd rather know that a person's a jerk or a nut-job up
front, rather than find out about it later.  That way, it doesn't feel
like they betrayed my trust.)

> MsB:
> 
> On another note, I got a couple of very interesting offlist responses
> to my pseudo-fable ramble about what happened, how, and why.
> Evidently I got one core theme (ego, at least as I was
> interpreting "ego," in the common vernacular...in spite of (hmmm)
> using the word itself nowhere, iirc). Apparently there is a need here
> for delicacy (not a dialect of my mother tongue) of which I was not
> previously aware, so I'm mulling over how to go about addressing it
> online--in my copious *#$! free time (RL can be SO <Aarggh!>
> intrusive).

Iggy here:

One word -   Huh???

(That was a very confusing paragraph... or is it just me?)


> MsB:
> 
> Sandy, reflecting on the fragility of the human psyche...and making
> the ungainly (and possibly tacky) leap to wondering about the
> fragility of the human psycho, as well
> 
> P.S. Was chat just hosed yesterday?
> 

Iggy here:

I popped into the chat room for a little while last night.  There were
shots of conversation, and then long periods where all there was to do
was watch the cyber-tumbleweeds blow through the room.


Iggy McSnurd

(Who finally thinks he located where MsBeadsley got her name, and
wonders if she used to watch "A Family Affair" a lot... at least, I
think that was the one with the little girl who had the doll named
MsBeadsley.)