[HPforGrownups] Re: An Elfly Reminder

[Steve]

Jordan sent a copy of this to me directly, and I responded off-line,
but now that I see he has posted on-line I will copy my response,
partly because I think this discussion has reminders for us all about
the Posting Rules and general etiquette.

One point I tried to make to Jordan, is that he shouldn't stress too
much about this. We all get reminder periodically about posting rules;
it's not big deal.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

--- Jordan Abel <random832 at ...> wrote:

> bboyminn:
> > Now, like I said, I'm not fussed about being
> > called a 'smart ass'. ...
> 
> Random832:
> The problem is not that I got called out for
> supposedly "insulting" you. The problem is 
> that I am _absolutely_ sure that if i'd instead
> called you a "smart-aleck" (which means the exact
> same thing) none of this would happened. The 
> presence of a four-letter ... word jumped out at 
> someone, and he/she felt the need to react, despite
> the lack of a rule against the word "ass". Remember,
> the elf responding was surprised at the use of the 
> term itself, not at any perceived insult to you or 
> anyone else.
> 

Steve:

Actually, three and four letter words are not totally
forbidden. If you had called Ron or Harry or Snape a
'smart-ass' or even an 'ass', it probably wouldn't
have been a big deal, assuming you established a
reasonable context for it.

BUT, and this is a big but, you directed it at another
member of the group. Truthfully, when I read it, I was
a bit shocked. So, it wasn't the actual words but how
they were used that was the real problem. The Elf
might not have spelled it out, but the implication was
there.

Keep in mind that the Elves are not expert authorities
who are paid to arbitrate disputes, they are just
members of the group who have taken on the thankless
task of moderating the group and making sure things
stay orderly.

> Jordan:
>
> As for the "not sure it is true" - I don't know if
> you're a smart-ass in general, because I don't know 
> you, but the bit I was responding to in particular 
> was pure smartassery. ...
> 

bboyminn:

Well, we could debate that, but it's a minor point
hardly worth debating. Time Travel discussions always
get heated. I've been in them many times before. It
just that nature of the beast. 


> bboyminn:
> > You seem to be implying that the rules are
> > somewhat unclear and perhaps arbitrary, but ...
> > those rules is spelled out ... (and) easily 
> > gained from experience.
>
>Random:
> 
> I don't want to "gain from experience" that this is
> a list where not a single "four-letter word" is 
> permitted. Because it's not....
> 

Steve:

As I already pointed out, the word/words you used are
not the problem, the fact that you directed them at
another member of the group IS. That constitutes a
personal attack which is definitely forbidden. Even
when the 'personal attack' has no malice behind it.

It is very easy for Internet communication to get out
of control, as it frequently does in this group in
heated discussions. When vocal inflection and body
language are missing, what is intended as a light
in-passing comment can frequently be taken very
personally. In a lot of posts like this, I frequently
find that someone has taken offense at a part of my
comment that I considered very incidental and
insignificant. 

That is one of the reasons this group is moderated so
tightly, because it is the nature of Internet
communcation to foster misunderstanding, which in turn
leads to a downward spiral of ever increasing personal
attacks.

I could have been offended by what you said, and
responded in-kind which would have stressed you out
and irritated you even more, which would have lead to
a heated response by you, which would have made me
anger and instigated a strongly worded response from
me, which would have ...etc...etc...etc.... These
things DO , very quickly, get out of control, which is
why the moderators step in and shut them down quickly;
usually with a polite reminder.

> bboyminn:
> > Please don't feel as if you are being personally
> > jumped on by the Elves, it was just a friendly 
> > reminder.
> 
> Random832:
> Well - part of the issue is that I was called out
> publically - Even though it was an accident, I did 
> feel like I had to defend myself. ...
> 

Steve:

IT was just a friendly reminder, and you will probably
get more, many more. Why? Because we all do. That's
why you shouldn't take it personal. Yes, logically,
you want to explain and defend yourself, but it's not
worth getting all heated up over.

Trust me, in the beginning I got plenty of comments
from the moderators both on-group and off. At the
time, I thought they were being far too fussy, and as
I said, I even accuse one of them about being too
'anal' about the whole thing. Fortunately, they took
the whole thing lightly. 

Still, after all these years, I've come to see that
the strictness of the rules are what allow us to have
deep meaningful conversations, and that keeps those
conversations focused on the main point. The rules
work; as annoying and 'fussy' as they are, they work.

In closing, let me say 'Don't get to stressed out by
this'. It's all far too minor a point to lose any
sleep over. There are much better and far more
interesting conversations to be had. And, it really is
not personal. The moderator, who is really just an
ordinary fallible member of the group, was just doing
his/her job.

Looking forward to reading more of your opinions and
comments in the group.

Steve