[HPFGU-Feedback] [HPforGrownups] Re: An Elfly Reminder

[Jordan Abel]

[Note. This message quotes and replies to parts of multiple messages]

> SSSusan/Shorty:
> Yes, that was VERY unfortunate.  It has happened to me before, as
> well -- not with an elfy reminder but with a message I thought I was
> sending to fellow Administrators that I ended up sending to the Main
> list.  It is embarrassing to make such an error, but they do happen;
> we're not perfect.  In this case, the mistake was noticed almost
> immediately and was deleted.  The apology for that occurrence was
> decidedly sincere.

Random832:
I don't doubt it, but this does bring something up - the fact that you
believe it was deleted. I think that in a lot of cases, people
administrating yahoo groups tend to forget that it is a mailing list.
There is, for better or worse, no way to "take things back" - there
have been any number of times when I've, immediately after hitting
send, thought "oh crap, i didn't sign/attribute/whatever", but there's
no way to change it once it goes out.

> SSSusan/Shorty:
> This is something perhaps the Admin Team should have a discussion
> about handling better.

Random832:
I wasn't really even complaining (since I really can't think of a way
to fix it) so much as just pointing out what its effect on my mood had
been.

If there's one thing that I think should be changed as a result of
this, I think what should be done is come up with a coherent policy on
what messages are supposed to look like and what replies are supposed
to look like, and get everyone on the same page. I've been told (by
different people) that signing vs self-attribution is either/or,
signing is mandatory but self-attribution is optional, both are
mandatory, I need to have an attribution at _every_ 'section' (i.e.
the beginning of any run of text by a different person), Once every
page or so, once for the whole message for short messages and 'every
so often' for longer messages, etc. I now do think self-attribution is
a good idea, but it needs to be clear _exactly_ what is required.

(Regarding Lee Storm's suggestion about bcc)
Honestly? I don't like secrets. I wouldn't mind, though, if such
reminders were _openly_ cc'd somewhere (to some list somewhere fr.ex.
or to hpfgu-owners) so there'd be a record of them so all the mods
could be on the same page.

> Vexxy/Ceridwen:
> As the elf HERself (I get that all the time, btw, it's the uncommon
> name. I'm female, for future reference) I can answer what I thought.
> You called Steve a "smart-ass".  I was surprised.  And, almost as
> shocked as if you had called him a "jerk" or a "fool".  Those two
> words are almost never, in my experience, used in an endearing way,
> while "smart-ass" has been.  Since you did not put any smilies or
> other notations of teasing, such as *g* or (jk, pal), it seemed that
> you meant it in a derogatory manner.

Random832:
I don't use smilies. I don't like them. Though i'll say "j/k" when I
_really_ think there's a risk of being misinterpreted. I'd _never_
heard "smart-ass" used in a truly derogatory way, either against me,
by me, or in my presence, so I didn't think it would be an issue. This
is apparently a regional thing.

Part of my reaction is due to a recent bad experience I had on another
list. I may have mentioned it among my other replies or I might have
snipped it out, but her goes: Someone said that a misspelling was
deliberate to get around censorship stuff like netnanny, etc; I saw
two misspelled words, neither of which looked particularly likely to
be censored, so I asked which one. A moderator (who was not involved
in the discussion) interpreted my mention of spelling errors as an
attack (even though i was _very_ polite about it and it was quite
clear I was only asking which one had been referred to) and i've been
put on permanent moderation.

> Vexxy/Ceridwen:
> When should we "give it a rest"?

Random832:
I was referring not to this incident but to the incessant stream of
"friendly reminders" (really, they don't seem so friendly when i've
had five in as many days) every other time I miss a self-attribution
or forget to sign. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that - I was
responding to the fact that you brought that up in addition to the
main issue.