Calling the argument ridiculous, moved from MAIN

[Carol]

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol responds:
> I also don't much appreciate having my canon-supported argument
> described as "ridiculous" by a List Elf, of all people. Disagreement
> and counterarguments are one thing; but disparaging someone's
> carefully expressed and canon-supported arguments is another.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> So I would have just written this offlist, but I would hate for 
> anybody to believe that it is somehow against the rules to call the 
> argument ridiculous. I am of course speaking only for myself and my 
> fellow list elves may disagree with me, but it is always been my 
> understanding that it is perfectly allowable to call the argument " 
> WEAK, SILLY, RIDICULOUS, even ABSURD",  as long as I am not calling 
> you any of those things.
> 
> I do think that there are words, which while characterizing the 
> argument still come dangerously close to characterizing the person. I 
> would never call your argument for example idiotic or stupid, because 
> I believe that it comes dangerously close to calling person those 
> things, NO I do not believe that your arguments are idiotic or 
> stupid,  just saying hypothetically. I would also never say that 
> because you argue certain thing, that you are somehow WRONG in 
> thinking whatever it is I am arguing against.
> 
> But ridiculous **argument**? Eh, sure. And if I think your ARGUMENT 
> is silly, yeah, I am going to say so.  And of course my arguments had 
> been called ridiculous and silly quite a few times, why not. 
> 
> It also does not matter much to me whether argument is canon 
> supported or not if I think that it is ridiculous. Of course yours 
> was canon supported and I gave my canon reasons why I think it is 
> ridiculous. I did not just say – oh yeah this is ridiculous, bye.
> 
> Moreover, BELIEVE me that now I am usually so tired of debates and 
> prefer discussions for the most part that even if I think that 
> argument is silly or ridiculous, I will often not say so. The thing 
> is if I decided to SAY SO, I do not believe that I am wrong in any 
> way. I am being more confrontational, SURE, but I think I am within 
> the limits.
> 
> 
> 
> Alla AKA Alika elf speaking only for myself ONLY.
>

Carol:

Thank you for that honest response. I, however, consider labeling an
opponent's argument as "ridiculous" to be both rude and ineffective as
a counterargument. I had hoped for an apology and am disappointed not
to receive one.

I do think, however, that you misconstrued the argument you regard as
"ridiculous." See the main list for clarification of that point.

I have, BTW, seen a number of arguments on HPfGu that genuinely
qualify as ridiculous, but I would never use that label. Instead, I
would use rational counterarguments and canon evidence in an attempt
to correct what I considered to be a misconception.

And the HPfGu guidelines specifically state, "Observe basic netiquette.

    "* No ad hominem attacks (flames): you can challenge ideas, but
don't insult people."

As far as I'm concerned, calling my post ridiculous doesn't
*challenge* my ideas. It insults *me.* By all means, challenge my
argument by presenting rational counterarguments and counter my canon
with counterexamples. By all means state that you disagree with me and
why (that is, make clear which specific point you disagree with). But
please don't resort to ad hominem tactics, especially since you're a
List Elf and need to set an example for other posters.

Carol, apologizing for the public response but since Alla posted here,
I thought I'd respond here in hopes of getting a clarification on what
constitutes an acceptable response from other List Elves