Foreigners and Titles (Ms. vs. Miss; to Dame or not to Dame (was Re: Titles)

[Milz]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., pengolodh_sc at y... wrote:

> To my knowledge, while the Queen can award membership in the 
relevant 
> orders to foreign citizens, these recipients do not receive the 
right 
> to title themselves "Sir" or "Dame".  I believe it also is not 
common 
> for foreign recipients to use the abbreviation connected with the 
> order (the full title of Sir Humphrey from "Yes, Minister!" and 
Yes, 
> Prime Minister!" is Sir Humphrey Appleby, K.C.M.G., for instance).  
> 
> I also have the understanding that British orders are not awarded 
to 
> citizens in the other countries in the Commonwealth, as requested 
by 
> these governments, such as Australia and Canada.  This is mainly 
due 
> to a desire in these countries that the decision on who is to 
receive 
> an award for service to, for instance, Canada, should rest with the 
> Canadian government, not the British government in London.
> 
> FWIW, in the Order of the Garter and the Order of the Thistle, the 
> female members are titled "Lady", rather than "Dame".

I'm not too sure of the protocol with other countries, but in the US 
those individuals who have received orders from the Queen can't use 
the title "Sir" (at least according to the etiquette mavens). It 
boils down to that an American citizen is a subject of a foreign 
sovereign. 

The same goes for bowing or courtsying (sp?) to a foreign sovereign. 
American citizens aren't supposed too. I remember when the Prince and 
Princess of Wales paid a state visit here. Several etiquette mavens 
warned that US citizens do not bow or courtsy to the Royals because 
bowing or courtsying is a sign of subservience. Since the US is no 
longer a part of the British Empire and is a sovereign nation itself, 
US citizens aren't subservient to any foreign goevernments or heads 
of state. The etiquette mavens advised that when introduced to the 
Royal couple a handshake was appropriate.

Milz