Foreigners and Titles (correction)

[Milz]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Milz" <absinthe at m...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., pengolodh_sc at y... wrote:
> 
> > To my knowledge, while the Queen can award membership in the 
> relevant 
> > orders to foreign citizens, these recipients do not receive the 
> right 
> > to title themselves "Sir" or "Dame".  I believe it also is not 
> common 
> > for foreign recipients to use the abbreviation connected with the 
> > order (the full title of Sir Humphrey from "Yes, Minister!" and 
> Yes, 
> > Prime Minister!" is Sir Humphrey Appleby, K.C.M.G., for 
instance).  
> > 
> > I also have the understanding that British orders are not awarded 
> to 
> > citizens in the other countries in the Commonwealth, as requested 
> by 
> > these governments, such as Australia and Canada.  This is mainly 
> due 
> > to a desire in these countries that the decision on who is to 
> receive 
> > an award for service to, for instance, Canada, should rest with 
the 
> > Canadian government, not the British government in London.
> > 
> > FWIW, in the Order of the Garter and the Order of the Thistle, 
the 
> > female members are titled "Lady", rather than "Dame".
> 
> I'm not too sure of the protocol with other countries, but in the 
US 
> those individuals who have received orders from the Queen can't use 
> the title "Sir" (at least according to the etiquette mavens). It 
> boils down to that an American citizen is a subject of a foreign 
> sovereign. 
> 
> The same goes for bowing or courtsying (sp?) to a foreign 
sovereign. 
> American citizens aren't supposed too. I remember when the Prince 
and 
> Princess of Wales paid a state visit here. Several etiquette mavens 
> warned that US citizens do not bow or courtsy to the Royals because 
> bowing or courtsying is a sign of subservience. Since the US is no 
> longer a part of the British Empire and is a sovereign nation 
itself, 
> US citizens aren't subservient to any foreign goevernments or heads 
> of state. The etiquette mavens advised that when introduced to the 
> Royal couple a handshake was appropriate.
> 

That's supposed to be "It boils down to that an American citizen is 
not a subject of a foreign citizen".

Also, a number of Americans have recieved orders from the Queen, 
Ronald Reagan being one of them. Again, he isn't supposed to use the 
title "Sir", nor is his wife allowed to call herself "Lady Reagan" 
(and definitely not Lady Nancy Reagan, because that implies she's the 
daughter of a Duke, Marquess, Earl, Viscount or Baron)

Milz (who had a very strict English teacher who insisted upon 
researching these things for creative writing assignments.)