From Viggo to Venison (musings on man-flesh)

[Tabouli]

mrhjpotter:
> I can tell you who is correct. I work in a London school and the 
term " he's fit" or "she's fit" does mean that they find the other 
person attractive or 'fanciable'<

(Tabouli was embracing her inner Hermione and bobbing up and down with her hand in the air for this one)  I knew that!  I knew that!  But what is more relevant is *why* I knew that... I knew it from Anna Maxted's "Getting Over It", where Tina describes Helen's date the dashing vet as "pardon me, but that man is fit".  Who said that popular culture isn't educational?  Both as writer and as cross-cultural psychologist I find popular fiction and film immensely helpful for familiarising me with contemporary culture and slang (and this from someone who almost never watches TV).

(not sure who):
>I was even okay with the fact that Elijah Wood looks 17 
> instead of Frodo's 51 (or, since he's had the Ring since age 33, 33)

Ah, but no... Tolkien makes it clear that hobbits have a different lifespan from us Big Folk (though Aragorn as 87 is questionable as well, on that score, unless Middle-Earth Big Folk are also long livers), and come of age at 33.  Which would mean that a hobbit at 33 is the equivalent of a Big Man (!) at 21, this being the age of adulthood in Tolkien's time in Britain.  Hence Elijah, who is 20 IIRC, technically looks about the right age, and the Ring will keep him that way.  Though I'm interested to see how Peter's going to get Elijah looking gaunt and tortured and filthy in Return of the King.  *Look* at the lad!  He has the face of a pink-skinned, blue-eyed cherub... you'd think dirt would evaporate off him into the stratosphere!

Amy Z:
> some people seem to go bonkers over this or that hair color (never have been able 
to understand that, myself) so if light brown triggers your hormones, 
I suppose that could be a factor.<

I have long argued that medium fair hair (from medium brown through to dark blond with a side-track into red) is unjustly maligned as mousy and uninteresting.  Medium fair hair, particularly with light olive skin and (of course) green eyes is beautiful!  Am I the only woman in the world holding a banner for the medium fair man?  My straight female friends think I'm weird... they all seem to go for dark and dramatic.  Here is the justification I give em...

Hair!  O most glorious and godlike of substances!  I love hair, I'm a veritable hair fetishist.  I was pained when that terrible fashion for men using number one clippers on their heads came in (ick!).  Head stubble just does not do it for me.  I also strongly disapprove of this awful chest waxing thing Hollywood seems to have inflicted on us lately (OK, so there are limits... I'm with Hollywood on the hairy back issue, and the gorilla-like Italian man I once dabbled with was over the top)... if one is going to be heterosexual, surely sexual dimorphism such as (tasteful quantities of) chest hair should be encouraged!

Now, for me, the appeal of hair is not specifically colour (though the thick silky deep red tresses of my most recent ex were almost glorious enough to keep him for.  Almost.) but texture, and, alas, most dark hair on men is lamentably coarse and wiry.  Medium fair hair, on the other hand, tends to be silkier and softer and far more tactile.  Very blond hair can be pretty, but there are limits to my Scandanaviophilia (which crop up when white lashes and Milky Bar and Norsca freshness ads come to mind... sorry Legolas).  The average Dutchman is about the right dilution of fairness.  The other main factor specific to me is contrast.  I'm a vigorous hybrid, I *like* contrast.  I'm quite dark-haired enough for two people!

David, straggling his hair and stroking his beard:
>And there was I sitting thinking, doesn't he (Viggo) look Danish!

(next wistful post)

> Viggo: General Hottie
> David: Lance-Corporal Lukewarm

(Tabouli eagerly awaits the next entertaining installment of "The Promotion: David Re-invents Himself as Straggling Smouldering Semi-Scandinavian Sex God"...)

Adana (on why so many find Sirius sexy):
> Is it that we are, against all reason, attracted to the dangerous, 
unpredictable type?  (...) Is it that we are attracted to men who aren't afraid to show emotion?  I 
gotta admit, I was hoping Harry would break down and cry at the end of GoF.<

Hmmm.  Have to say, I find Lupin appealing and lovable, but not at all sexy.  Too controlled, too low-key, lacks zing.  Snape I find intriguing but too bitter and nasty for this intrigue to manifest as sex appeal.  Which leaves me with Sirius, who has what I'd call second-hand sexiness.  That is, I can appreciate that he has sexy qualities which will attract others (passionate, tortured, loyal, etc.) without finding him particularly sexy myself, not as a fictional character anyway.

Not that I've never found fictional characters sexy,  of course... I always thought Trevyn from Nancy Springer's Isle series sounded rather tasty (must be the sea-green eyes, dark blond hair and stormy passionate nature), and would love to meet the formidable Antonia's Patrick Merrick (wry, witty, resourceful, articulate).  In terms of the HP men, though, I might have to share Mahoney's port-o-potty in:

> 4) The never thought of anyone as particularly sexy camp

...which the possible exception of the prospective sexiness of Daniel-as-Harry.  Actually, I seem to be developing a troubling taste for wide-eyed silky-haired youthful leading men... I also thought Elijah-as-Frodo was more appealing than the more obvious candidates for Hunk of the Rings.  Hmmm.  Err, hang on, hang on, put down that call to the p(a)edophile police (though Elijah *is* of age...), I think it's not specifically the youth factor, it's the youthful outlook factor... that warmth and playfulness and steadfastness and creativity and sense of wonder that gets pounded out of a lot of people once they enter the workforce.  The idea being not to find someone who has these things because he's very young, but to find someone who's had enough life experience to be mature and interesting who has managed to hang onto them.  Just add strong, philosophical soul (such as that portrayed in Frodo and Harry) and a splash of articulate wit, sprinkle with good hair and enjoy!

(Note: I suspect the above youthful outlook factor is one of the reasons why I enjoy HPfGU so much...)

David:
> There are men who are completely unconcerned about their appearance, and focus instead either on what they see as more important external things like getting a job done, or on internal realities from which clothes and appearance are a misleading distraction.<

My father incarnate.  He is still wearing the long stiff collared batik shirts, jumpers his mother knitted him and schoolboy tweed and grey flannel trousers he bought in Malaysia in the 1960s, and he's proud of it!  "See what happens when you buy proper good quality clothes?" he is wont to announce.  My brother (who is *very* style conscious) is continually appalled.

As a definite Daddy's girl who adopted him as role model, it took me until my early twenties to realise that Trying To Look Nice wasn't a criminal act which would evoke avalanches of contempt and judgment from all observers at my stupid feminine frivolity and fashion victimhood.  You wouldn't believe how liberating it was the first time I actually *dared* to buy nail polish!

> However, what intrigues me is that there are many men who *affect* to be unconcerned about their appearance, and may go to some lengths to demonstrate this by their scruffiness - but actually they are very concerned about their wider *image*.  They are, in effect, projecting the artificial message: I am a genuine kind of guy, and you can tell this because I'm not dandified (like those other people with whom I am in competition).  I have higher priorities than dress, or I know and live deeper realities than personal vanity.<

Yeah, this is common in Australia too, maybe even more common, with our national allergy to pretension.  The accidentally stylish look is quite a trick to pull off... you have to look like you're not trying.  (I think one of the secrets is knowing what colours and clothing suit your face and body shape: this means you can dress down yet still look good).  Dunno.  I think the discerning eye can usually detect the difference between genuine comfort with one's self and a carefully crafted pose of casual unconcern, and image-consciousness is one of the clues.

David:
> British people are very image-conscious.

I think the Chinese community in Australia (and Asian cultures in general, if I may risk saying so) could give 'em a run for their money!  The difference being that in Asia there is no stigma attached to concern about one's public image.  Drive that Mercedes!  Wear that Chanel!  It's more embarrassing *not* to wear it there.  Saving face and projecting a good impression of one's family is a fundamental part of life!  The reason why there are so many fake Rolexes and Armanis available in Asian countries is that you fake it until you make it.  In Australia, the pretension-allergy means that people compromise extreme fashions for the sake of practicality... a woman wearing three inch platforms will be sneered at.  On the other hand, in young trendy circles in Japan, it would be the woman *not* wearing three inch platforms being sneered at!  Doesn't she know anything?  (All rather uncomfortable for me, with an immigrant Chinese mother and a Dilbertesque father!  Just last week my mother was haranguing me about my wardrobe being insufficiently fashionable... what will people think?)

England is an interesting case in point.  Like Chinese society, it is historically very hierarchical and status-conscious.  *However*, the English are also struggling with the competing Protestant values which say one should stock not up in earthly treasures (hence flaunting them is Vulgar) and one should get only what one has worked for, etc.etc., leading to a backlash against the hierarchical nature of the society among the working and middle classes.  I suspect the phenomena David descibes is a symptom of this tension between the two (the desire to demonstrate that one is high in the hierarchy versus the desire to downplay any signs of elitism).  All very interesting.  I also heard a similarly curious comment from a friend of mine who recently spent two years in England.  She said the English always started conversations by asking people what they did for a living, so as to estimate their "rank" (she theorised), whereas the lefty French dismiss such talk as dull and irrelevant to what sort of person they are getting acquainted with.  Hmm.  Any thoughts from English/French listmembers?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]