relativism for under 12s

[pippin_999]

From:  "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> 
Date:  Tue Jan 29, 2002  8:33 am
Subject:  Relativism for the under 12s

me, quoting Tabouli:
>>Maybe the reason why children can't understand why Snape 
wasn't the villain is less because they aren't capable of 
understanding complex portrayals of Good
and Evil, but because almost all of the books and TV and films 
and education aimed at them are indoctrinating them in 
simplistic notions of Good and Evil<<

me, quoting me
>As a mom I have to disagree. Many under twelves *like* that 
stuff, 
and given a choice they prefer it. I believe this is because the 
healthy child identifies with the parent. To develop a positive 
self-image, the child must view the parent, and by extension 
adult society, as good. <

Tabouli:
>>Ah, but I wasn't talking about preference or self-esteem, I was 
talking about
cognitive development! <<


Oh! I was talking about "books and TV and films". Not reality. I'm 
not a psychologist, mind, so my generalizations about kids are 
just from watching my family and reading, and I could be 
misinformed. This is all IMO.

Much of the way the child  perceives the world is false according 
to our adult way of looking at things. They populate the closet 
and the dark space under the bed with monsters. They have 
adventures with imaginary friends. The black-and-white world 
isn't only something we consciously invent and then indoctrinate 
the child into believing. It's part of their reality in any case, and 
ours too if we're not careful. 

Merely telling children that the black-and-white world is not real 
when they perceive that it is, or dearly wish that it were, only 
makes them wonder whether they are crazy or evil or sick. 
Echoing the black-and-white world in fiction acknowledges its 
reality  and at the same time distances it...Long ago and far, far 
away, East of the Sun and West of the Moon, In the Book of Ten 
Thousand Wonders, through the barrier to Platform Nine and 
Three-quarters. Stories help them see that everybody thinks of 
such things, and help them understand that one day they will 
see them as part of the story world, not real life. One day, they 
will know when their imagination is playing tricks on them. 
What's scary is when adults feel they have lost control of their 
world. Then it becomes very easy for grownups to  believe that 
the monster is real after all: that results in things so horrible that 
we on this list do not speak of them. 

I agree children over six or so can grasp the idea of relativism 
and begin to use it in real life, and it can be presented in 
non-threatening ways. All to the good. I think under six it's 
doubtful. It would be interesting to try the  water experiment with a 
set of five year olds. I think they would say they had a "hot hand" 
and a "cold hand". They would think it was their hand and not 
their mind that was different. You might be able to get them to 
repeat back to you what was (by adult standards) actually 
happening, but they wouldn't be able to internalize it and apply it 
to real life.

That's really the question with the older ones. I see the 
acceptance of relativism as an emotional and even economic 
development which takes place over time rather than a purely 
cognitive transformation. Just because a child is cognitively 
ready to understand relativism doesn't mean they will embrace it 
entirely. You are teaching children to do so, (hear!hear!) but they 
have an emotional incentive because their parents support this, 
and an economic one because it will help in their new 
environment. I imagine it would be much more difficult for you if 
their parents were against it, and their environment was not 
about to change. 

I think it's not so much that children's literature indoctrinates 
children to take a black-and-white view, it's that in their 
dependent state they find this view attractive, and in some part 
neccessary, even as they come to understand that it isn't real. 
The whole idea of children's literature is that it be attractive and 
comprehensible to children without adult help. A book which can 
only be understood by children who are wise beyond their years 
is really not a children's book, IMO.

 Pippin