[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Bullying

[Shaun Hately]

On 26 Jul 2002 at 2:32, jenny_ravenclaw wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Jennifer Boggess Ramon <boggles at e...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > as a teacher who has had to deal with the question of bullying on 
> both a personal and professional level, I feel obligated to 
> (pedantically, I'm afraid) point out that this is not at all true in 
> the real world.  At best, it encourages the bully in question to pick 
> another victim, but it's often unsuccessful; at worst, it marks the 
> current victim for far worse treatment.>
> 
> I have to disagree with you here.  I also am a teacher; I believe we 
> actually teach the same kinds of kids.  Most of my students must learn 
> to defend themselves or accept being subjected to endless bouts of 
> being bullied.  Not long ago, my boyfriend's younger brother was 
> having a problem being bullied at his school.  My boyfriend encouraged 
> his brother to fight it out.  I am not saying I agree with this, but 
> my boyfriend's brother not only beat up the other kid, but they then 
> became good friends.  
> 
> Bullies get away with bullying kids who they see as weaker.  I have 
> yet to see a bully go after someone bigger OR after someone who has 
> smacked them back, hard.  I have other stories to share about students 
> of mine who defended themselves, but they're all the same: in the end, 
> the bully backed off.

The thing is, Jenny, we have a case here where you are reporting what you've seen 
- fair enough. But my experiences, and it seems Jennifer's as well, are quite 
different. I was a victim of serious bullying. I required hospital treatment, 
ambulances had to be called, I have permanent injuries - thankfully not too serious - 
based on attacks at school when I was 12. I had to put up with a lot of it, I had to 
deal with it. And I tried all the methods that supposedly worked. I did fight back - 
and I did so very successfully on occasion. But it rarely had any impact on stopping 
the bullying. Maybe in 1 case out of 10, fighting back stopped the bullying - in the 
vast majority of cases it just made it worse - to the extent on two occasions it placed 
my life in danger.

Now - my case is hardly typical either - at least I hope not. I'm just raising it because 
I think it's important that people realise there isn't any simple solution that always 
works. Too often kids are told there is - maybe because they are told that by people 
who, like you, haven't seen those methods fail. They can fail. They can be 
disastrous.

People need to realise that there are rarely simple universal solutions. Especially 
teachers. I am *not* saying you're not aware of that - that would be reading more 
into your post than is actually there. But, yeesh, no kid should have to go through 
what I went through - problems that were made worse because the advice I was 
given, no matter how well intended was wrong *in my case*.

For reference, I am considered to be a fair authority on bullying in schools. I have 
three articles published on the subject (under an assumed name due to the content 
of one of them), and I serve on state government committees relating to schoolyard 
victimisation. I've seen a lot of bullying, and the responses that work.

Teaching kids self defence is good - it will stop a lot of bullies. But not all. In my 
case, part of the reason it didn't work for me was because people knew I could 
defend myself - so the cowardly bullies deterred by physical means, generally didn't 
try. The ones who went after me were more subtle for the most part. They used 
physical violence on occasion - but used other less obvious methods at other times.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia