[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Gifted children

[Shaun Hately]

> Another ex child prodigy underachiever here, weighing in a bit late 
> on this debate.
> 
> Shaun wrote:
> 
> > The problem is that over 50% of gifted children are 
> > underachievers...
> 
> Well, naturally they are!
> 
> You say this as if you think that it's a *bad* thing.

Yes, given that the definition of underachiever used is as follows.

"A person who is not achieving at a particular level, who is known to have both the 
ability and the desire to achieve at that level."
 
> > . . . .and a significant number of these kids are underachievers 
> > because their school environment is inappropriate to them.
> 
> Why do you make this assumption?

Because I am aware of the tens of thousands of pages of research into these issues 
over the last 50 years that show this is the case, because I am personally aware of 
over 100 cases, and because I was one of them myself.

> I was always under the impression that "underachiever" meant
> "somebody who has prioritized their values very differently than I 
> have, and in a way that makes me feel upset and threatened."

Well, you're free to use any definition you wish - but this is nothing like the definition 
we use.

We don't consider those who choose a different path to be underachievers. The 
term is reserved only for those who would like to be achieving at a higher level.

In our program, our primary aim is to ensure that the kids are, as much as possible, 
happy with their lives. Some are happy without academic achievement. That's 
wonderful. But there are also some who really do want to achieve - I've spent most 
of today talking to an 8 year old whose dream (at this point of his life) is to be an 
engineer. His mathematical abilities are those of a typical 16 year old. What is he 
required to do in his class at school? They are learning their multiplication tables, 
and doing two digit addition. He knew those things before he was 3.

In three and a half years at school, he has learned basically nothing. He's very close 
to shutting down and giving up on school. If he was happy, we wouldn't be involved 
at
this point - but he isn't. He wants to learn - and school is doing nothing to address 
his desire to learn. If something isn't done, he will lose that desire.

If he decides later on that he doesn't want to be an engineer, or he has no interest in 
mathematics, or whatever, that's fine. But it should be his choice - not something 
that he is pushed towards because of inappropriate schooling.

There's a big difference between choosing a particular path than finding it's the only 
one left to you.

> Certainly I have been labelled an "underachiever" all of my life,
> and that's always seemed to me to be what the word actually means.
> 
> Usually when it is applied to a child, the it refers to iconoclasm 
> and rule-breaking.  As an adult, on the other hand, it more often 
> seems to refer to money and lifestyle choices.
> 
> So what precisely are you using the term "underachiever" to mean
> in this context?  Surely not IQ tests, right?  Your Gifted Children 
> are the ones who did well on those, so presumably they "achieve" just 
> fine when it comes to certain types of standardized tests.  I am 
> therefore curious: just where do you sense a failure in their
> achievement levels?  Are they breaking rules?  Not following orders?  
> Not getting the right grades?  Not reading the right books?  Not 
> earning enough money?  Not sharing your own values or interests? 

None of the above.

Breaking rules is not a criteria, nor is obedient. Grades are only relevant if the child 
(and to a much lesser extent their parents) consider them important. Reading isn't 
considered, nor is money, and our kids have a very wide range of value and 
interests and are encouraged to discover their own paths. And most would be *very* 
resistant to any attempt to direct them in any event.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia