[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re Main list ideas/problems

[Lita]

On 8/20/03 9:17 AM, "Ali" <Ali at zymurgy.org> wrote:

> I notice that several people have suggested closing the group to new
> members for a short period, whilst we get our act together. With
> respect, I don't think that a week would work. At the moment we are
> getting in the region of 20 -25 newbies a day. Over one week, there
> absence would not make sufficient difference to bring about the
> changes that you wish.

Actually what was suggested was that the *list* be shut down for a period of
time--like what was done in June when OOP came out--so that no new posts are
generated. At least, that's what I was suggesting. :) As I understand it,
the number of newbies is a problem in that their pending messages and other
admin functions are tying up the list elves' resources. But, their messages
are not the rule-breaking ones appearing on-list.

Shutting down the entire list would, IMO, send a strong message to those who
are breaking the rules. For one, it is the best way I can think of to get
everyone's attention, which, let's face it, is a difficult thing to do with
the current signal-to-noise ratio. :) A simple ADMIN message is just not
going to cut it on its own. But closing the list to posting will demonstrate
that breaking the rules won't be tolerated, which is, IMO, what really needs
to happen.

> I am actually in favour of list closure for a period, whilst
> allowing newbies read-only status, this is something we have been
> considering but perhaps for a month.

Closure to posting or to new subscriptions? Because I do agree with you that
simply closing the list to new subscriptions probably wouldn't work. For
one, you would still have to deal with pending messages from moderated
members, which wouldn't free up the elves much or give them much of a break.
For another, I don't think it will make much of a difference in the current
posting problem, as it isn't posts from just-joined newbies that are getting
on-list. From what I understand, you elves are handling that--with and
amazing amount of effort, yes, but it *is* getting done. :) (Three cheers
for the elves!) The problem on-list is with established posters and newer
(non-moderated) posters not following the rules.

> For a long time, I have also thought it a good idea for all newbies
> to begin life with only read-only privileges. I'm sure that this
> would stop many of our "drive-by" posters - the sort whose posts you
> thankfully don't have to see, but which wastes alot of our time.

You know, this is an excellent point, one that didn't really occur to me at
first. It seems to me that the pending messages are taking up an inordinate
amount of the elves' time. Anything that would cut down on the
"time-wasting" pending posts would be probably be most  welcome. :)

> However, as so many of you have said, many of us have personalities
> which means we would either not bother to join in the first place,
> or we would join, do nothing for a week, and then start posting.
> Again though, it is something that could be tried on a trial basis.

Well, for me, I don't think a week or two without posting privileges would
have discouraged me from joining. However, I mostly read the list, not post.
I can count the number of posts I've made to the main list since I joined in
October on one hand and still have fingers left. :) But, clearly 10,000
people are not posting, so I actually think my experience of the list is
very close to that of the most HP4GU members.

To be honest, I think that such a requirement would actually *encourage* me
to join. Part of why I was attracted to HP4GU in the first place was because
of the high posting standard of the list. Frankly, I wasn't (and still
aren't) interested in a high volume list where my time is going to be
wasted. A high volume list full of quality posts is worth my time, but I
don't want to have to go through a high volume list full of bad posts and
pick out the occasion gem.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I think it's simple courtesy to get
familiar with the list rules and lurk before posting to a new list. Too many
mailing lists don't expect (let alone demand) this part of simple Netiquette
anymore, and I rather think a lot of people newer to the Internet aren't
even really aware of it. To me, a list with a mandatory lurk policy would be
very attractive. :)

Lita