Religious Freedom...Was Re: Faith Education

[msbeadsley]

> >Erin:
> >Yeah, there are lots of those Southern Baptists in Alabama, aren't 
> >there, Iggy?  Practically all of my friends are (I'm Methodist) 
> >and one of the worst moments I've had with that recently was going 
> >to the mall last month with a big group of friends and passing a 
> >booth with a petition to support Roy Moore and his ten 
> >commandments monument.  All my friends ran over there to sign it, 
> >and I just sort of stood there akwardly.  

>* It was kind of bad.  All of them stayed there for a few minutes 
>* talking about how awful it was, the government trying to take 
>* religion out of our lives, and they kept looking back at me, the 
>* people running the booth would glance over at me... I finally 
>* drifted a bit closer, and one of my friends asked if I wanted to 
>* sign and I had to say "No, thanks", and then of course they ALL 
>* looked at me like "she's one of those evil people who's not a real 
>* christian", but no one said anything.  For which I was 
>* grateful, 'cause I don't think some of our friendships could have 
>* stood the ensuing argument.

> Iggy here:
> *laugh* I would have happily debated the subject with them.  (There 
> are some things I won't back down from... and defending what I 
> believe is one of them.)

Iggy, did you mean to come across like, "Well, you know, if it had 
been *me*, I'd have gotten into it with them and stood up for my 
principles"?  (FYI: It's the impression I got.) I put back in what 
you snipped of Erin's post (and marked it with asterisks) because 
it's germane to what I want to say.

<snip some Iggy>
> This means that people aren't supposed to be nervous or scared to 
> speak their minds about what they believe... anywhere they want to 
> speak their views... respectfully, at least.  (I've had probably 5 
> conversations about faith and religion with someone down here in 
> the last 3.5 years I've lived here.  Mostly because I worry that, 
> with the grapevine around here, I'd end up being cast out by the 
> entire town simply because I stated a view or two that doesn't mesh 
> with the Bible...)

(So, 'scuse me, Iggy, but what happened to not backing down on things 
you believe in? Yes, I'm messing with you here a bit.)

It's true that here in the U.S. we are guaranteed freedom of 
religion, and our government was based partly on a division between 
church and state; but what both Iggy and Erin are talking about here 
is a *social* phenomenon. Being "nervous and scared" because you're 
afraid your friends or neighbors will criticize or ostracize you is 
real different from being "nervous and scared" that cops or soldiers 
will break down your door and march you off to prison. (Scary, but at 
least when it's the government I'll bet you know keeping your mouth 
shut is just good common sense; while not debating regular folks can 
feel like cowardice.)

It appears that society in Alabama is pretty Southern Baptist. (I 
was "saved" in a So. Baptist church, my grandmother's, in Indiana, 
when I was thirteen, but have been a neo-Pagan for the last twelve 
years...and spent fifteen years before that as a devout agnostic 
(that's supposed to be amusing and true, both).) In my experience, 
the Southern Baptist church is all about emotional hooks and dragging 
people to "salvation" whichever way you can. (Hey, what's more 
important: someone's intellectual freedom, or the disposition of 
their immortal soul? The end justifies the means for many "witnesses" 
in the more charismatic religions.) And you don't have to do anything 
but *believe* in order to get your ticket punched (cheap at twice the 
price).

But, IIRC, Roy Moore rode some other controversy into his position of 
elected judge; so chances are he's now using the very emotional 
controversy around his public display (on government property and as 
a government official) of the commandments as a springboard to votes 
for his electoral effort. (Oh, and this is not about states' rights, 
either, IMO.)

I am open about being pagan. I don't try to change anyone else's 
mind, however, or suggest that my way is THE WAY. (One of my best 
friends is a Christian family man from Kansas who works in IT; the 
other is a hippie feminist Buddhist Jew artist from the Bronx who's 
utterly technophobic...and yes, they are also friends with each 
other.)

The thing about most religions is that they insist that *their* 
scripture is the *right* stuff. (Churches and faiths have become 
(like other organisms) about ensuring their own survival, rather than 
about teaching truth.) So any time you engage in debate there has to 
be a winner and a loser. Only one *side* can be right. And I think 
that's ridiculous, myself; if any human (or group of humans) could 
define IT, IT wouldn't (be big enough to) be GOD. IMHO. (Let's hear 
it for GOD THE INCOMPREHENSIBLE.) End of rant and my religion in a 
nutshell (appropriate for a nut?).

Sandy aka msbeadsley, who has been *real* busy lately/lurking