Prayer and Incantation (was: Religious Freedom...Was Re: Faith Education

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "IggyMcSnurd"
<coyoteschild at p...> wrote:
>
> What's the real difference between a prayer and an incantation?
> Both are a series of words said with intent to enlist the aid of a 
> Power to help you achieve a desired result.

Prayer isn't just asking God(s) for stuff (the type called petitionary
prayer). There are also prayers of praise, prayers of thanksgiving,
prayers of repentance, prayers of just talking things over with God(s)
... and my experience is that many NeoPagan Wiccans (maybe not the
ones who believe that the God(s) are only symbols) pray all those
kinds of prayers.

Incantation ... actually, that's word I mostly associate with the
Potterverse. Do you mean 'spells', also known as Magickal 'work' or
'doing magic'?  If so, surely using words is the least of it (magick
can be done with no words at all) -- surely the most important part is
the intention and the raising, focussing, and sending of 'energy'? To
me, it is much different than petitionary prayer, in the same way that
 for me to go to the kitchen to fix a cup of tea is different than me
calling out to Tim: "please, dear sweet Tim, can you be a darling and
get me a cup of tea?"

> What's the real difference between Ritual, and a religious Rite
> such as Communion?
> Both involve the structured use of items, both literal and symbolic,
> in a structured manner, and accompanied by prayer/incantations with 
> the intent to achieve a desired result with the aid of a Power.

If it's liturgical, it's Ritual, regardless whether Pagan, Christian,
or anything else (e.g. secular). By 'if it's liturgical', I mean if it
has a script (whether written or memorized) which is always followed
the same every time the ritual is done ... a lot of the formality in
secular government courtrooms fits that category. Maybe we can argue
about whether the secular rituals intend to be aided by a Power. 

(If we wrote a brand-new script that this is the first time it's used,
or we just improvised, then why do we call it a Ritual?)

Btw do you intend to imply that some Christians *deny* that a prayer
they always say the same way or a part of their worship service that
is always the same (or their Communion) is a 'ritual'?