slash fiction - responses (FF herein, but nothing too bad) - LONG

[gwendolyngrace <gwendolyngrace@yahoo.com>]

Hi, all.

Yes, I'm taking a short break from all that Nimbus planning to chime 
in, late as usual, on this issue.


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Diana <dianasdolls at y...>" 
<dianasdolls at y...> wrote:

> I was referring specifically to the Lucius/Draco incestuous pairing 
> Cassie mentioned at the very beginning of post.  Even if that 
fanfic 
> piece was written by the greatest writer of all time, I would not 
> find an incestuous relationship between a father and son, even 
> between two characters I dislike [almost love to hate], in the 
> slightest bit appealing.  

I believe someone else may already have said this, or perhaps several 
someones, but let's get a couple things clear:

1. Slash does not necessarily equal porn.
2. Slash does not necessarily equal stories featuring sexual 
aberration, acts of deviance, or non-consensual sex.
3. Slash consists, in the common definition, of fiction in which the 
primary character(s) engage in some form of romance that is 
homoerotic. This means that the characters are discovering their 
sexuality, or feeling warm and fuzzy for someone of the same gender, 
or angsting over how they'll never get together, or what have you. 

Slash is under no obligation to contain explicit acts or descriptions 
of sex. That is an authorial decision, and I find that it is largely 
based on what type of story the author tries to tell.

As for those who have attempted to find examples of slash and only 
found the more lurid stuff, or even the more peurile examples, well, 
remember that famous rule:

90% of everything is crap.


So, if a fic concerns incest, for example, it may be that the author 
*wants* to disturb. Or to explore the darker side of life. Not all 
fanfiction has to be light and fluffy, and not all fanfiction has to 
leave its readers feeling comfortable.

We should occasionally read things that challenge. No one is 
obligated to agree with everything they read, nor is anyone under 
orders to read only things they agree with.

As a non-HP example, I wrote a slash fic a few years back (before I 
was familiar with the term "slash") that was set in the Star Wars 
universe. As some of you may know, Lucas is clear in the series that 
the Empire employs few to no women, on huge starships with crews of 
over 100,000, that take tours of duty several years long. We think 
our Navy has a problem with submarines? Try a star destroyer. It was 
thinking about that that led me to imagine a black market on "pretty 
boys" in the fleet. Icky, yes, but icky for a reason. I don't believe 
that a black market sex trade, or entrenched systems that allow 
sexual harrassment in the workplace, are desireable, but that doesn't 
mean I won't write about them. I also don't want a ten year old to 
read about it--but if my fic challenges that ten year old and makes 
them think, then I won't feel sorry they found it.

Over on Fiction Alley, I moderate the slash boards. I'm here to tell 
you that even slashers do not agree on why they write, or what they 
like to read. There are some who will only read fics where the most 
that happens is two characters hold hands. Some are purely interested 
in their own titillation. For some, slash is a guilty pleasure, just 
like Harlequin Romance but with an all-male cast.


As far as the characters in HP, well, that's as much a part of the 
reader's interpretation of the characters as anything else. 
Personally, I couldn't care less about the sexual development of the 
Trio, nor am I much interested in who will be snogging whom in a 
year. 

I'd like to recommend a few fics that several people have told us 
were their first introduction to slash, and stand out for them as 
examples of how it can be done tastefully and realistically.

The first is called, "In this World of Strangers," and is a triptych 
of short stories about Percy Weasley. It's by A'jes' Blue and can be 
found on Astronomy Tower. In the first installment, "Catharsis," 
A'jes' Blue merely set out to tell a story about why Percy might be 
so uptight. She sought a literary representation of unsticking Percy 
and shaking up his very repressed (not sexually repressed, exactly, 
but in every way) personality and getting him to live a little. But, 
in order to do that, she had to explore possible reasons Percy 
screwed himself up so tightly in the first place, and also cleanse 
him of his demons. So "Catharsis" explores an inner Percy few people 
seem to have seen.

The second part, "Fallout," is about the healing process. After 
purging, what comes next? For A'jes' Blue, the answer was to get 
Percy away from it all. On holiday with Charlie in Romania, Percy 
loses track of his old self while tending dragons. It's only toward 
the end of "Fallout" that Oliver Wood turns up unexpectedly with his 
Quidditch team for training nearby, and Percy turns to someone his 
own age--not a friend, yet, but someone who happened to be in the 
right place at the right time.

The third part, "Unsuspecting Hearts," is where the relationship 
between Oliver and Percy deepens. Much of the fic concerns Percy's 
own changing comfort level and self-reinvention. As he learns more 
about himself, he starts to figure out what he wants in life. There's 
still a Percy-ness to him that will never go away (like his choice to 
diligently research sex before trying it), but it's now overlayed 
with a new sense of self-awareness and all those romantic feelings 
virtually anyone has when embarking into the unknown of love.

After she finished "In this World of Strangers," A'jes' Blue was 
asked, cajoled, begged, and otherwise assaulted by requests to write 
a follow-up story, because many saw in Ron's reaction the possibility 
of self-doubt, and possible discovery for himself. Despite her best 
efforts, she started to think about a Harry/Ron scenario. Against my 
advice (it went something like, "No! Don't do it! Don't succumb to 
the maddening crowds! The trio probably won't have any lasting 
relationships in any combination of the three of them! For the love 
of Pete, don't do it!"), she did it.

"Take the Chance" is what she wrote. I think it bears saying that I 
think these stories are such fine examples of realistic slash because 
A'jes' Blue remains very sensitive to the idea that for most people, 
discovering that one's orientation differs from societal norm is a 
scary and delicate thing. None of her characters leap into action 
upon making this discovery. They hold back, they hesitate to allow 
themselves to get hurt. That doubt and fear is something I think 
anyone who's ever loved can identify with.

There's a lovely passage in "Take the Chance" where Ron is trying to 
think what adult person he can talk to to ask for advice. He will not 
talk to his father, refuses to acknowledge Percy (because he really 
doesn't want to think about his brother having sex, thanks), and 
feels too far removed from Bill or Charlie to talk to them. He lights 
on Sirius, and writes him a letter (A'jes' and I are firm S/R 
supporters). 

In her story, Ron wrote after an introduction to his topic: 
1. How do you know when you are in love (I guess this is the big 
one)? 

2. When you think you're in love what do you do then? 

3. What does it feel like? 

4. Does it hurt (Okay
 Not what I really mean. Do you know what I 
mean?)? 

Please answer at your earliest convenience. Thank you. 

Ron Weasley 

PS- please don't tell anyone I wrote this to you.


And Sirius answered:

When you think you may be in love the first thing you must do is talk 
to the person you have those feelings for. I can't stress this 
enough. Talk. I know it goes against anything you've seen of men and 
relationships, but believe me, communication is the key to happiness. 
If you are not sure it's love
 This is more difficult. Does the 
thought of the person make you feel warm inside? Do you trust them 
enough to let them know how you feel? If the answer is 'no,' perhaps 
it is only physical attraction you're caught up in and not love. If 
the answer is 'yes'- you, my friend, are in love! Don't wait around 
for the "right time"- Trust me, there is no right or wrong time. Talk 
now! 

As to what it feels like
 Well, I figure that is pretty much an 
individual response. For me, when I am with my lover I feel like 
everything is right. Finally everything makes sense. He completes me. 
We have a trust, a bond. 

As to whether or not it hurts. Yes. And no. Ron, everything hurts us. 
Sometimes the pain is good pain, it shows us we are alive and able to 
feel. Other pain is not good- and I trust you can figure out the 
difference. Yes, love hurts. And yes it is worth every bit of pain 
that it causes. Look at me. We spent twelve years apart because of my 
idiocy, and yet, we are stronger now than we have ever been. If 
anything he loves me more- which has been a very great gift. I have 
so many regrets, so much I am not proud of, and yet he loves me more. 
We are stronger together than apart. 

Love is a risk, Ron. But make that wager. Take that gamble, because 
the payoff is more joy then you have ever wished for. 

In closing, let me just say that none of us knows how long we have to 
love. Take your chances where you find them. The Dark Arts are 
rising, and we need to grab for whatever happiness we can find. Trust 
me on this. You should never have to live with the regret of 
withholding your love because of fear. We never know when it is too 
late. 

I certainly hope this helps a little with your difficulty. I've never 
given advice on love before. I don't know if anything I've said is 
worth the parchment it's written on. Good luck! 
---End Quote


Now, aside from being I think a spiff bit of writing, I think that 
anyone who disagrees with Sirius--be their lovers male, female, or 
goats--is sniffing something.

It was this sentiment of Sirius's in "Take the Chance" that led 
A'jes' Blue and myself to collaborate on "Between the Lines," which 
is, we hope, a frank and unflinching look at how Sirius is coping 
with his recovery from Azkaban, and how a relationship between him 
and Remus might realistically have developed. 

Neither of us believes either Remus or Sirius was openly gay at 
Hogwarts, for example. For a variety of reasons, few people are lucky 
enough to be able to recognize their sexual orientation early, accept 
it, be accepted by their families and friends, and proceed through 
life with no doubts about what attracts them to a mate. Especially in 
the parents' generation, i.e., the 60's and 70's, I think it's highly 
unlikely that even if one of them (or both of them) "figured it out" 
relatively young, they would have revealed that fact to the world. 
Frankly, life is full of people who believed themselves to be 
heterosexual for a long time before realizing or coming to grips with 
their natures. I personally know at least a dozen men who were 
married, had children, and were pushing 40 years old before they 
admitted that their preference was for other men. That doesn't mean 
they didn't love their ex-wives, or even that they weren't really 
attracted to women as well--it means they realized they were 
conforming to a social expectation that made them very unhappy.

We chose Sirius and Remus partially because we find them a little 
more intriguing than the kids. We also chose them because to us, the 
potential for *good storytelling* was higher. We don't ever shove the 
relationship in "people's" faces. However, the relationship is front 
and center in the story, among a lot of other things. And also, in 
our timeline, they're over 35, so I sincerely hope no one objects 
that they're not old enough to make their own choices.

Now, we rated the story R. Not because we felt that the relationship 
needed to be shielded, and not because we thought that there was a 
lot of inappropriate sexual situations for younger people. In fact, 
there's a lot of "fade to black" and a lot of euphemism in the story--
the literary equivalent of creative positioning in films with implied 
nudity. But when there's a need to go into the bedroom, we don't shy 
away from it, either. Almost all of the "adult" situations in BtL 
actually don't involve sex--they involve Sirius's nightmares and 
other scary stuff. A few of them involve sex, but it's certainly 
not "bow chicka bow bow" material. 

My point is, there is slash that is sensitive to something more 
important than 'Women think two guys are hot.' There is slash that is 
extremely sensitive to the characters and how they would react to 
situations if they had the predilection. There is slash that truly is 
about realism in fiction and not about "How do I get them in bed?" 
There is slash that is in the 10% of "not crap." [There is also slash 
that *is* intended for titillation, and guess what? A very small 
portion of it is really good, and the rest of it sucketh. And I'm all 
in favour of keeping that stuff where kids can't casually find it, 
mostly because I don't want to hear them squealing "eew" -- plus the 
fact that they just don't get it.]

For one thing, if you're reading fanfic at all, you should accept 
that the author is changing *something* to make the fic possible. 
Fanfic is both extrapolation and interpolation based on what we 
already know. Another's interpretation, therefore, must be somewhat 
different than the original--and what is the point of fanfiction if 
not to use canon as a springboard for something?

Even if the something is, "Ginny likes Harry, so I'm going to find a 
way to put them together."

Even if the something is, "I wonder where Remus was all those 12 
years between Sirius's arrest and teaching at Hogwarts? Maybe 
Romania?"

Even if the something is, "Here's what I think is going to happen in 
Order of the Phoenix."

Even if the something is, "Ya know, call me crazy, but has anyone 
ever thought Draco might be gay?"

It is whatever it is. If you didn't want to change anything--if you 
didn't want to read something new or different or expose yourself to 
a new version of facts--then why read any of it at all? 

There is something for everyone out there--or nothing, if you prefer. 
And the world of fanfiction is just like life, where there are people 
who appear quite respectable who engage in hardcore bondage and 
fetish clubs on the weekends, but there are also people who make 
their living running those clubs who are wonderful, honest, moral, 
ethical people. 

This is a really long post, so I'll say it again:

Slash does not equal porn.
Slash does not equal deviant sexual practices
90% of everything is crap.

Find the 10%; then let's talk.

Gwen