The four loves

[Melody <Malady579@hotmail.com>]

Tabouli wrote:
> OK.  We have philos, the love of friendship.  We have eros, sexual
>love.  Erm, run the other two by me again?  They weren't love of
>country and love of God, were they?  I do have dim memories of the
>"loves" from childhood Sunday School classes, but I'm sure there were
>only three then.

One is - Agape.  A very deep love that I like to describe as the love
that would die for you.  A very intimate concept really.  In Bible
terms, it is the love of John 3:16 meaning the love that God has for
the cosmos.  Personally, I think that is where our culture gets
confused.  They think eros is agape.  That if agape exists eros must
too.  I greatly disagree mostly because the few people I do agape, I
would never eros.

Let me look up what "agape" meanings in Greek.  Hold on.  It says
here: Christian love.  Hmmm, I *guess* so.  The meaning of "aganetos"
means: beloved, dearest, only.  *That* is closer to what agape means
really.  Hmmm, seems my Greek professor was right in saying some
Greek/English dictionaries are bias.  Anyway...

I never learned of a four love, but I remember Elkins said it in one
of her Crouch posts.  Sorry Elkins - I should have paid more attention
and jotted it down *somewhere* but, I didn't.

These differences of loves do matter and are easily confused in modern
eye.  Go to John 21:15-19 in the Greek and the use of philo and agape
are *very* important in the text, but are lost in modern language.  It
is a shame, because the dialogue between Jesus and Peter are quite
important in the difference between those two words.  Seems also, even
Jesus recognized that agape could exist without eros, but Peter may
not have.

But, not wanting this to turn into a Sunday school lesson (I promise
mods), I just wanted to point out that even then, men were shy in
their true feelings and that the all encompassing English word "love"
is what messes people up.


Tabouli again:
>It's very pervasive, this one.  All the jokes about the LOTR
>characters, for example.  (Sam loves Frodo so much there just *has*
>to be sex involved, right?)  Not that I don't find some of them
>funny, I just think they're a reflection of this eros obsession.

I could not agree *more* Tabouli.  I am greatly, greatly disturbed by
the number of people that do not get that friendship.  They just
cannot imagine being that close to someone and not completely jumping
them.  It is sad.  For humanity and that confused person.  What a
lonely existence where one stops all friendship before they get good
because they cannot understand agape does not mean eros.  Nor do they
want to go on for fear someone else, who is just *observing* the
friendship, will confuse the agape for eros.

One of my roommates in college had a deep, deep best friend who
everyone confused.  They were inseparable even though they lived in
different cities.  They would talk every night for hours, send each
other presents, sleep in the same bed when she sent the night, blah
blah blah, the type of things "couple" do.  I understood that she just
loved her best friend "like a sister" (the way most describe best
friend agape love), but I found it extremely disappointing so many
others did not.

Everyone called her "gay" behind her back because they confused the
two of them and because they thought agape comes with eros.  To add to
the fun, my roommate did have a crush on a very cute guy, but everyone
thought that was a "cover", because she *must* truly love her girl
friend.  How very, very sad.

In the end, the others stayed confused because my roommate and her
best friend stayed intimate without being "intimate."  Even though the
others had this beautiful example of true agape love in front of them,
they never saw it for what it was.  They just thought them freaks.

Frankly, if that is true, then I would much prefer being thought a
freak and having agape, then being thought "normal" and stopping the
friendship all together.

I have had a friendship ruined myself in college because people
"advised" her to back away from me because we were getting too close.
 We were becoming too intimate for friendship so people would think we
were gay.  I was deeply crushed for obvious reason.  The very idea
that someone would think that baffled me.  She was a sister to me and
*we* knew that, but still the idea seems to be that close friendships
like that can only exist until you reach 12.  It makes *no* sense.
How sad is it that once we reach puberty, we must suspend our need for
intimacy to only be bestowed by the opposite sex.  That notion only
backs up the idea that eros equals agape, and that if agape exists
between two of the same sex, then eros must two.

Sorry - I don't want to open my old wounds here, but I do greatly
*hate* when people get agape and eros confused.  I hate it.  It
cheapens life.

So I have managed to reiterate everything that has been said here so
far - sorry.  <grin>  But I do agree.  Society, on a whole, is really
loosing out by confusing all this.

Agape does not mean eros.  Philo does not mean eros.  Eros does not
mean agape or philo.  Yet, when translated in to English, they all
mean love.  Yes, I think our culture would be confused.


Melody