[HPFGU-OTChatter] Fanfics, ratings & heated responses

[Queer as John]

Diana <dianasdolls at yahoo.com> said:

> First off, I would like to point out that not wanting to read about
> same-sex couples having sex does not make a person a homophobe.

I disagree. A phobia is an irrational dislike, fear or hatred. Leaving the
fear and hatred aside for now, precisely *how* can such a dislike be
*rational*? Seriously, I'm not being rhetorically questioning here, I'm
actually interested in finding out.

The only *rational* reason I can think of is if one is reading erotica for
the purposes of sexual stimulation. If het/slash doesn't arouse you, there's
nothing that you can do about it.

> I wouldn't want to read about my college astronomy professor getting it on
> with my milkman or John Rhys-Davies having an interlude with Mr. Whipple, but
> that doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy reading about two gay characters I like
> reading about doing the deed.

But I *do* think that, in certain readings of canon, there are characters
who can be seen as gay. See below.

> It just means that I prefer some pairings over other pairings, or I prefer to
> read about pairings that I find truly plausible, exciting or personally
> stimulating to me.  Or maybe I prefer not to read about sexual pairings at all
> for my own personal reasons.

Again, what reasons could those be if they are not a phobia?

> Regardless of what I choose to read, I should be able to have a
> rough idea of what to expect if choosing to read a work of amateur
> fiction about characters I've already got my mind set about.  I've
> read all four books and decided for myself what sexual orientation
> some the characters are and who they're attracted to, and I don't
> welcome someone barging into my vision and telling me I've got it
> all wrong.

Isn't that what HPforGrownups is all about? Debating? Portraying characters
in sympathetic or unsympathetic lights? People disagreeing about canon
interpretations? People have used fanfiction as canon explanation on the
main list in the past. Why is it different when we start talking about
sexual orientation? Because certain sectors of society find it more
acceptable to discuss murdering children (Cedric) than two people of the
same gender falling in love? Again, I'm interested here.

> This is where rating fanfiction gets tricky.  But not that tricky.
> If I don't want to read stories with specific pairings, I should be
> able to look through the list and be able to identify pairings that
> I am not interested in.

That's why we have pairings-based, ratings-based and, on FA, length-based
and *theme-based* sorting. Don't want to read NC-17 Ron/Draco? That's fine.
But I argue that the Ron/Draco author shouldn't be forced to plaster her
story with "Attention: Boys Getting It On" warnings. Similarly, a PG-13
Oliver/Percy falling in love story shouldn't have to give "Warning: Gay
People Inside" notices.

> As for the ratings for sexual and violent content, we are [almost]
> all adults on this list and can handle most things, even if the
> pairings or content isn't our usual preference, but children, who
> can and do access fanfic sites on the internet can't discern those
> differences as well and might think they can handle more than they
> really can or just don't know what the ratings mean.
> Clear, accurate, ratings would help solve this problem a great deal,
> assuming children didn't seek out the most explicitly rated stories
> just because of the "need to see what that stuff is about" factor.

Frankly, children shouldn't be running around on the internet unsupervised.
It is not the responsibility of anybody but a child's parent or guardian to
monitor their child's internet usage. If a twelve or thirteen year old
child, despite the R ratings (for language, not sex) and lies, clicking
through parental acknowledgements on FA, and manages to read my Keeper's
Secrets, it's not my problem.

> I don't think stumbling upon a slash fanfic, a non-
> graphic one, would make him gay or mess him up for life - that's
> silly.  However, I don't want to get into a bunch of topics and
> explanations he's not ready yet to comprehend for many, many reasons.

But surely, as a responsible parent, you monitor your nine year old's
internet usage, and thus the point about children being disturbed by
material, of whatever nature, is rather moot?

> As far as being an adult and stumbling across fanfiction I have no
> interest in, I am frustrated in what the fanfic sites lack - and
> that is comprehensive classification on the most basic level.

Interestingly, we at FA are working on revamping our system, because the
small archive we envisaged now has over 11,000 *members* and
gods-know-how-many readers.
 
> Unfortunately, too many people are quick to cry "discrimination" at
> the suggestion that fanfics should be clearly sorted into different
> ratings for sex and violence, couple pairings and slash or non-
> slash, but sorting is not about discrimination.

But nobody I have seen writing here is arguing that. People are arguing that
there is no reason why, *purely on the basis of gay characters*, a slash
story should have explicit warnings which exceed those put on het stories.

> It is about enabling those readers who want to find and read fanfics a chance
> to preserve their own views of the canon-based characters while adding to
> their images only what they want to add.  Fanfics with bad writing, too
> little/too much cursing or unwanted pairings or excessive/too little sex or
> whatever can bring unwanted images to mind.

> What is unjust is that because I state this, some
> people assume that I must be homophobic or a canon-idolizing
> nincompoop. 

Not at all. You appear homophobic because your argument is that you do not
want your canon images "tainted" (your word) by homosexuality, among other
things. *That* is homophobic language.

> There shouldn't be name-calling over someone defending their right to maintain
> their own vision of the HP characters, free from taint, unwanted images, and
> bad fiction.

See, when you use language like "taint", that makes me think that you are
implying that gay people bring that "taint" into society. And we gay people
hear that language a *lot*. Mostly from Jerry Falwell and Jack Chick. And it
is offensive, to us and to others.

> For the record, no.  I think Barty Crouch Jr. is/was gay.  I think a few other
> characters could be either/or, and I'm undecided at the moment.  Do I think of
> all the HP characters in terms of whether they're gay or straight?  It may
> surprise the self-appointed activists on the list, but I don't.

>From my perspective as a gay man who went through a British boarding school,
I have to say that I *do*, with most of the characters. I didn't
necessarily, on my first reading, but since we have had _so_ much time since
GoF came out, on my fifth and sixth readings, I start to delve more deeply
into what makes these characters tick.

For example (gasp! I'm going on-topic!), I believe that one possible reason
for Percy's adherence to rules is that he is gay and in the closet. Why do I
think that? A number of reasons, including his adherence to rules and
ambition. I'd elaborate, but that's not my point. My point is that I *do*
think that, given the evidence from Kinsey and others, close to 50% of the
male population has had a homosexual experience at some point in their
lives. At least 10% are exclusively gay in their attractions.

Since we do not have any evidence on which to base an assumption that the
wizarding world is a welcoming haven for gay people, we therefore assume
that ALL of these gay people are in the closet. In other words, we don't
know who they are, and we can only theorise on subtext. And, boy, is there a
lot of subtext.

I'll move on to the other thread on this.

--John, proud to be an activist, and wondering if there is some sort of
committee which appoints activists who aren't self-appointed :)

______________________________________

Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com

AIM, YM & LJ @ QueerAsJohn || www.queerasjohn.com

"There's nowt as queer as folk."  --English proverb
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