Fanfics, ratings & heated responses

[psychic_serpent <psychic_serpent@yahoo.com>]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Diana <dianasdolls at y...>" 
<dianasdolls at y...> wrote:
 > ER expressed her opinion that there should be sufficient warnings 
> on fanfics to forewarn possible readers in case that fanfic 
> contains something they wouldn't want to read, for whatever 
> reason, with an emphasis on labelling slash fanfics, especially 
> ones containing sex.
> 
> John, and then later Heidi responded that they felt ER was 
> expressing possibly homophobic opinions about fanfic labelling.  
> 
> Haggrid then chimed in that she could see what ER was trying to 
> say, even though her word choice may have been poor.

I think the poor reaction may have been because the emphasis was on 
labeling slash fanfics, and it seems that that is desired regardless 
of whether there is sex in the work.  This implies that the very 
idea of two people of the same gender expressing affection for each 
other, whether simple proclamations of love, hand-holding, or some 
level of sexual activity, is inherently less desirable to the reader 
in question than any of these activities taking place between two 
people in a mixed-gender couple.  When this sentiment is expressed 
it WILL come across as homophobia.  

As a heterosexual gay-rights activist, I see this in the media all 
the time; when two men married on "Northern Exposure" the producers 
of the show were worried about showing them kissing at the 
conclusion of the ceremony, and so the audience did not see that; in 
contrast, the numerous daytime soaps on the air at that time showed 
men and women cavorting in various stages of undress, cheating on 
spouses and other lovers, etc.  The program with the two men 
pledging their love and commitment to each other was on at ten 
o'clock at night, not during the day when many impressionable 
children could see it (unlike the soaps), yet this blatant double-
standard was perpetuated.  

The climate on American television is not as repressive now as it 
was at that time, but it's still unlikely that we're going to see 
much in the way of gay role-models on shows that are targeted at 
kids, which hurts both gay kids (who do not see people like them in 
positive roles) and heterosexual kids (who could miss out on the 
opportunity to be more open-minded and have a wide variety of other 
kids for friends, including gay kids).

> If I've mis-characterized your responses to each other, I 
> apologize, I'm just trying to get to the root of this fierce 
> debate, that is bordering on a mini-war of words.  Since I seem to 
> have kicked off this scuffle by my original post stating that I 
> just didn't understand and had no desire to read slash fanfics or 
> fanfics with lots of sex, regardless of the pairings, I'll post 
> again on this topic and on the other posts.  
> 
> First off, I would like to point out that not wanting to read 
> about same-sex couples having sex does not make a person a 
> homophobe.  I wouldn't want to read about my college astronomy 
> professor getting it on with my milkman or John Rhys-Davies having 
> an interlude with Mr. Whipple, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't 
> enjoy reading about two gay characters I like reading about doing 
> the deed.  The same with heterosexual characters, I definitely 
> wouldn't want to read about my own parents having sex, or, for 
> example, Margaret Thatcher having sex with George Bush, but that 
> doesn't mean I dislike heterosexual pairings.  It just means that 
> I prefer some pairings over other pairings, or I prefer to read 
> about pairings that I find truly plausible, exciting or personally 
> stimulating to me.  Or maybe I prefer not to read about sexual 
> pairings at all for my own personal reasons.  

If you prefer not to read sexual situations at all, that is your 
choice, of course, but the other person weighing in on this, 
according to your paraphrase, wanted labeling of slash 
fanfics, "especially" those with sex.  This phrasing implies a 
problem with same-gender relationships in general, not sexual 
relationships in general, which you are describing as your 
preference.  This is perhaps where the impression is created that 
the person wanting the slash fics clearly labeled is saying this 
because of being anti-gay.  If one does not want to create this 
impression, then one should not single out stories about gay 
relationships.

> Regardless of what I choose to read, I should be able to have a 
> rough idea of what to expect if choosing to read a work of amateur 
> fiction about characters I've already got my mind set about.  I've 
> read all four books and decided for myself what sexual orientation 
> some the characters are and who they're attracted to, and I don't 
> welcome someone barging into my vision and telling me I've got it 
> all wrong. Or, worse, thrusting images into my mind of scenes I 
> definitely don't want to be part of my Harry Potter experience. 

Well, for that matter, just about any preconceived idea you have 
from reading the books could be dashed by reading fanfiction.  I 
have Hogwarts pretty firmly fixed in my head in Scotland, for 
instance, but a fanfic writer may think that it is in London.  I am 
unlikely to read that fic, once I discover something like this that 
seems like an error to me.  Should I require that the author "warn" 
me ahead of time that they are setting Hogwarts in London?  Why 
should the author be required to do ANYTHING other than entice you 
to read?  If you're going to be given the entire outline of the 
story, full of spoilers, so you can decide whether you want to read 
it--what, precisely, would be the point of actually reading it?  If 
you have ideas about the Potterverse that are that firm and do not 
want them corrupted, perhaps you should not read fanfic.  (And I say 
that as a fanfiction author.)

> This is where rating fanfiction gets tricky.  But not that 
> tricky.  If I don't want to read stories with specific pairings, I 
> should be able to look through the list and be able to identify 
> pairings that I am not interested in.  Would you enjoy browsing 
> through a book store if you had to look through a list of synopses 
> of all the books in there, all mixed up to boot?  

This is why one reads reviews.  Just as you can read the New York 
Times Book Review, or go on Amazon and read reviews for books, you 
can go on Fiction Alley and read reviews people have already posted 
for fanfics.  The reactions other people are having to the writing 
may give you an idea of what to expect (if you don't mind spoilers, 
and it sounds like you are DEMANDING spoilers).  Authors who do not 
reveal everything in their summaries probably want to spring 
surprises on their readers.  I recently had someone tell me how out-
of-character they thought some characters were in early chapters of 
a fic wherein the explanation for this does not arrive until about 
twenty chapters later.  If I'd told them ahead of time that there 
was a reason for this, they might have stuck around, true, but I 
stand by my decision to be mysterious. <g>  JKR has written 
mysteries, essentially, but would you want her to reveal the 
solution in the blurb on the dust jacket, or read for yourself and 
enjoy the unfolding of the story?

> Realistically, most fanfic sites are not huge book stores with 
> millions of dollars to spend on personel to sort and stock books 
> into neat little categories.  For this reason, massive fanfic 
> sites that have every single story sorted by all pairings 
> contained within and then by how graphic the story as far as sex 
> and violence will probably never actually exist.  It's a nice 
> idea, but it ain't going to happen.  

As a Fiction Alley Mod, I can recommend that you visit the Sorting 
Hat on Fiction Alley Park.  Authors voluntarily post there with 
information on the pairings in their fics, the eras in which they 
take place, lead characters, summaries, ratings and any warnings 
concerning language, violence and/or sexual activity.  There are 
also keywords in all of the files uploaded to Fiction Alley, and you 
can do a Google search for things you particularly want.   

> How to make it work, then?  Well, start by making the 
> pairings and ratings clear BEFORE a synopsis is given.  Links to a 
> synopsis can be anchored on the same page, just further down.  Why 
> do I suggest this?  Because I visited the fictionalley website 
> just a few days ago after all the heated discussion on this list.  
> While casually browsing the synopses, and still unfamiliar with 
> the layout and the placement of warnings and pairings, I read some 
> synopses [basiclly blurbs to try to get the browser to read the 
> story] and winced at the unwanted images that sprang to mind when 
> I read a few of them.  I will spare others the same fate by not 
> quoting a couple I read there. 

God, you make it sound so bad.  Again, I do not think you want 
anything less than Cliff Notes of fanfics.  The information you are 
asking for would many times provide massive spoilers for the story.  
I'm sorry that you were wincing; I proofread each and every summary 
that is posted on Ficton Alley before uploading this list of 
summaries, and yes, some pairings are things I wouldn't want to read 
because there are some characters whom I consider to be somewhat 
asexual and I want to keep it that way in the Potterverse that lives 
in my head <g>.  However, you now seem to be saying that you're 
upset that the information about these pairings was given, because 
it put unwelcome images into your mind.  I'm afraid that asking to 
be told what's in the fics and also complaining about the 
information being given to you is somewhat contradictory, and I'm 
not sure anyone will be able to please you at this rate.

> As for the ratings for sexual and violent content, we are [almost] 
> all adults on this list and can handle most things, even if the 
> pairings or content isn't our usual preference, but children, who 
> can and do access fanfic sites on the internet can't discern those 
> differences as well and might think they can handle more than they 
> really can or just don't know what the ratings mean.  
> Clear, accurate, ratings would help solve this problem a great 
> deal, assuming children didn't seek out the most explicitly rated 
> stories just because of the "need to see what that stuff is about" 
> factor.

On Fiction Alley, we have a question that pops up on the screen when 
any user clicks on an R-rated fic, asking whether the reader is over 
the age of seventeen.  If the reader answers the question honestly, 
there should be no problem.  The question is there for a reason.  I 
believe that adequate precautions have been taken against children 
seeing material they probably would not be allowed to view in a 
movie theatre without their parents actually taking them; if you are 
not supervising your child's internet use, that is a decision that 
you might need to reexamine, but that is an issue quite apart from 
the precautions that have been taken at Fiction Alley and whether a 
given child is being honest in answering a question about age.  

> My son is nine and he does not know what the term slash when 
> applied to fiction means.  I have not had the opportunity or 
> desire to explain it just yet.  He does know about heterosexual 
> sex and homosexuality, but not every explicit detail - there's no 
> need for that until he needs more information and asks for it, 
> then I'll answer his questions.  He does not need to find a fanfic 
> site and read all these synopses.  The ones he doesn't understand 
> would puzzle him and the ones he does understand would 
> considerably confuse him.  I don't think stumbling upon a slash 
> fanfic, a non-graphic one, would make him gay or mess him up for 
> life - that's silly.  However, I don't want to get into a bunch of 
> topics and explanations he's not ready yet to comprehend for many, 
> many reasons.

Well, I cannot tell you how to raise your child, but I can say that 
it is probably better to explain homosexuality sooner rather than 
later.  Our children have gone to a number of same-gender weddings 
with us, and some dear friends at our church (both women) are 
raising their daughter together; our kids know to call both of these 
women collectively the child's "moms."  Explaining to a child that 
sometimes two women love each other and decide to make a life and a 
family together, and sometimes two men decide to do the same is 
really not as hard as you might think.  In fact, it will probably 
seem quite consistent to them--love is what makes a family.  Kids 
are wonderfully without guile and preconceptions about these things 
the younger you speak to them about it.  Raising your children to be 
blind to differences between people is not easy, but very 
worthwhile.  And sometimes they can really surprise you.

I was shocked at one point in my son's education when he told me he 
couldn't do a report for Black History Month on a black person he 
looked up to because he didn't know any.  (Many teachers at his 
school are black, and the majority of the children.)  I pointed out 
to him that his favorite pre-school teacher, still at the same 
school, would be an excellent choice, and he informed me that she 
wasn't black!  He didn't see any difference.  I was almost upset 
after that that he had an assignment that FORCED him to start seeing 
differences where he had previously been blind to them.  Teaching 
children that color does not matter and that the gender of the 
people who love each other does not matter will be its own reward, 
trust me.

Our entire family had a fabulous time attending a wedding at our 
church for two young women of whom we are very fond.  Our kids had a 
great time dancing at the reception and mugging for the cameras.  We 
received a lovely picture of the brides in the mail and our kids 
insisted on giving it a place of honor with our displayed Christmas 
cards.  I am very proud of the way they are turning out and am glad 
that we are able to set a good example for them.
 
> In my original post, I may not have clearly expressed myself that 
> others are free to write and read what they like, just I expect to 
> do the same.  If I don't want to read it, I don't have to.  If I 
> don't understand the appeal of some of it, then I just don't.  If 
> it appeals to you, read away.   

Being selective is fine.  I'm very selective in what I read.  It 
just seems to me that you want to be told about a tremendous amount 
of minutiae in order not to risk being offended on any level.  This 
will probably never happen.  If JKR includes something in a future 
book that interferes with your mental image of the "reality" of the 
Potterverse, will you stop reading?  It certainly sounds like you 
might.  

Again, I think that you should understand that when a certain group 
is singled out (like slash fics) as a reason why you want labeling 
it is very difficult to avoid seeming discriminatory.  There are 
ample opportunities to search for fics online that you might be 
interested in, and supervising children below the age of 13 while 
they're online is something I recommend anyway, as a mom.  (I don't 
let my kids read my R-rated fics, for instance).  If you're looking 
for ways to be offended, I predict that you will be.  Attitude 
accounts for quite a lot.  Abraham Lincoln said we should look for 
the good in people; perhaps we should look for the good in fiction 
as well, and remember that fanfiction in particular is a labor of 
love and written for the enjoyment of both the author and readers, 
rather than a commercial venture.  It's supposed to be fun, so if 
you're not having fun, perhaps you should reconsider.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb