Lying - a cultural issue?

[serenadust]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:
> I watching a programme this week called "Child of our Time" which 
> showed 3 year olds learning how to lie. The commentator, a famous 
> Doctor presentator, said that this was a really important 
> developmental issue as the average adult lies 3 times every day.

<snip>


> I recall several threads concerning Harry's lies, with some 
listees 
> implying that lying is almost always wrong, whereas I tend to 
think 
> that "white" lies ie euphemisms, or lies designed to prevent hurt 
> have their place and can be beneficial.
> 
> Now, I wonder how much of this is due to cultural bias? By way of 
> example, children of a friend of mine are being brought up in 
> America, and despite their British parentage, are to all intents 
and 
> purposes, American. They are being taught to be much more open 
about 
> what they feel, and much more direct in what they say. In such an 
> environment, I can see that white lies would have much less of a 
> place than ours and honesty would be more highly regarded.
> 
> I'm not trying to argue that the experience of one family shows 
what 
> American culture is, anymore than the way that I'm bringing up my 
> kids is necessariliy representative of my culture. But, I do 
wonder 
> if British reserve is in fact based on a lie. Do we do more harm 
> than good by saying that we like things when we don't? Are we 
> allowing people to live their lives without knowing what others 
> really think? Does this matter? Why does the majority of the 
British 
> population eat sprouts at Christmas when hardly anybody likes 
them - 
> is this tradition or politeness gone mad? Do Brits lie more than 
> people in other more open cultures?


This is a very interesting topic, and not one that can be easily 
addressed by any clear-cut differences between British and N. 
American cultures.  Having lived in Britain for a couple of years 
when my children were very young (I'm American, btw), I had lots of 
opportunities to observe the differences in child rearing techniques 
and while there really were many differences, I concluded that most 
of them were a matter of style rather than substance.

Ali wrote:

>My point is that as a society we are *expected* to lie. I'm teaching
>my children to say thank you and make positive comments about
>presents which they don't like as to do otherwise would seem
>impolite.


I think that we Americans like to believe that we value honest, 
direct Yankee (or frontier, if you like) speech, and therefore would 
never, ever want to endorse lying, particularly training children to 
do so.  That said, I personally pounded it into my children that 
they must do their level best to find *something* to sound pleased 
and happy about whatever they receive as gifts.  Of course that 
resulted in my son crowing "Oh boy, now I have TWO of these shirts", 
so the system hasn't been perfected yet <vbg>.

The point is, I think most of us still value sparing other peoples' 
hurt feelings over total (sometimes brutal) honesty.  It's a 
sophisticated concept for young children to master, and there are 
still a fair number of adults who can't seem to manage the nuances 
(although I suspect that there's more than a little latent hostility 
behind their commitment to honesty).  There's also a fine line 
between honesty and rudeness and I'm not charmed by many children 
whose parents glow with pride at their "assertiveness".

I do think that American parents and teachers do encourage children 
here to be more forthcoming about their own opinions on things, and 
that can be startling if you aren't used to it.  Still, the 
difference is probably more superficial than real.  I tend to think 
that most of us are much happier living our lives *without* knowing 
exactly what everyone else thinks of us, and that the people who 
complain about Harry's lies generally have another agenda.

I am absolutely shocked to hear the truth about sprouts in Britain, 
though.  Do you really mean to say that all those people I saw in 
Sainsburys with the 5 pound bags of fresh sprouts are living a lie?
Does the International Red Cross know about this?  This is tragic!

Those poor, poor people....

Jo S., who admits to being the only one in the family who actually 
*likes* cranberry sauce, but still serves two kinds at Thanksgiving