Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie

[dumbledore11214]

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Hmmm, right. He was not forced, but I was not sure that Merriman 
> > told him exactly what was asked, because isn't he saying to Will 
> > that He(Merriman) should have make sure that Hawkin knew exactly 
> > what the risk was?
> 
> Magpie:
> Yes, he did tell him. If he hadn't told him, Hawkin would not have 
> had any reason to feel betrayed. I think what he means by "making 
> sure Hawkin knew the risk" is not that he should have told him, but 
> that he should have made sure he really understood that if he took 
> this on, he might die. Instead he was focused more on doing 
something 
> important and it was only in the moment that Merriman touched his 
> shoulder and went for the book that Hawkin suddenly realized--wait, 
> could I be dying right here? And Merriman's giving him no 
assurance. 
> He's all Old One going for the book.
> 
> I mean, there's no indication that Merriman tricked him in terms of 
> not telling him something--if that were the case Hawkin would have 
no 
> reason to be afraid in that moment.

Alla:

No, not tricked, and sure, I am sure he mentioned the possibility of 
death, and Hawkin took it on.

But that is the thing - did he mention **all** the risks, did he 
mentioned how **high** the possibility of death is AND did he mention 
that as Merryman the Old One he does not give a d*mn whether Hawkin 
dies or not, if it is needed to save the book?

I do not see that he said all that, because otherwise what you said 
would not happen, no?

If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the 
sign that he was **told** before how high the chance of it?

Not that he **MAY** die, but he is almost certainly may die, you know?

Sooo, I do not know, I am sure Merryman told him that he may die and 
I am sure he took the task, but I still believe that he took the task 
at least partially under false pretenses, which likely were not even 
intentional on Merryman's part.  But who knows, maybe he 
subsconsciously thought that it is better not to describe task in 
great details. IMO.


 
> Magpie:
> But how would he have known he could die if Merriman hadn't told 
him? 
> There's nothing that happens in the scene that tells Hawkin that he 
> might die--Will has no idea why he looks pale or what Merriman 
means 
> when he says it was "too much to ask." If Merrriman hadn't told 
> Hawkin what he was doing, all Hawkin would have known was that 
> Merriman had to be touching him to take out the book, and he would 
> have probably done that happily enough, perhaps assuming that if he 
> wasn't there Merriman wouldn't be able to pull it out or something.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Right, see above.

 
> Alla:
> > 
> > Yes, Merriman says it was his mistake, I know. But I am not sure 
I 
> > agree that he does not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him. It is 
as 
> > I said was an impression I was left with when I read the books 
few 
> > years ago. Merryman says great words, but making Walker walk the 
> > earh for many centuries does not look like not holding his 
betrayal 
> > against him. IMO of course, but I thought his actions speak 
louder 
> > than words.
> 
> Magpie:
> But he doesn't make the Walker do that in anger to get back at him 
> for hurting him personally. The Light is scary because they're 
> judgments are carried out without emotion. "And the Doom that 
Hawkin 
> has brought upon himself by this act," Merriman said, without 
> expression, "is a dread matter, which will make him many times wish 
> that he might die." Merriman's described as being without 
expression 
> (until it softens). He's gone to the Dark and now Merriman is 
coldly 
> judging him as the traitor--coldly, not angrily. He's the enemy 
now, 
> and he's not going to treat him as anything else just because he 
> likes him personally. 

Alla:

Yes, I know, that Light judged Walker for the action he did, coldly 
and emotionlessly, but really to me that does not make much 
difference.

Merryman IS one of the Light, that is why the argument that he does 
not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him is not working for me.

Because even if Merryman personally does not hold a grudge, the Light 
does and IMO Merryman as part of the Light does that as well.