Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie

[sistermagpie]

> Alla:
> 
> Well, yeah, but it is hard not to for me anyways. 
> 
> Magpie: 
> > The Walker's weakness really wasn't just that Merriman betrayed 
> his 
> > love, because Merriman didn't, iirc, lie to the Walker. He told 
> him 
> > exactly what he was being asked--and being asked to take on a 
> mission 
> > that was potentially deadly isn't unheard of, really. The problem 
> > wasn't that Merriman betrayed him, since Merriman laid out 
exactly 
> > what Hawkin was doing. Hawkin made the choice--Merriman didn't 
> force 
> > him, iirc. That's the thing the Light doesn't do.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hmmm, right. He was not forced, but I was not sure that Merriman 
> told him exactly what was asked, because isn't he saying to Will 
> that He(Merriman) should have make sure that Hawkin knew exactly 
> what the risk was?

Magpie:
Yes, he did tell him. If he hadn't told him, Hawkin would not have 
had any reason to feel betrayed. I think what he means by "making 
sure Hawkin knew the risk" is not that he should have told him, but 
that he should have made sure he really understood that if he took 
this on, he might die. Instead he was focused more on doing something 
important and it was only in the moment that Merriman touched his 
shoulder and went for the book that Hawkin suddenly realized--wait, 
could I be dying right here? And Merriman's giving him no assurance. 
He's all Old One going for the book.

I mean, there's no indication that Merriman tricked him in terms of 
not telling him something--if that were the case Hawkin would have no 
reason to be afraid in that moment.


> Alla:
> 
> Precisely, yes and objectively I totally understand it and know 
that 
> Light has to fight, just feel very sorry for Walker and as I said 
> not sure that Merryman told him everything. I was under impression 
> that the fact that he could die was sort of a surprise for him.

Magpie:
But how would he have known he could die if Merriman hadn't told him? 
There's nothing that happens in the scene that tells Hawkin that he 
might die--Will has no idea why he looks pale or what Merriman means 
when he says it was "too much to ask." If Merrriman hadn't told 
Hawkin what he was doing, all Hawkin would have known was that 
Merriman had to be touching him to take out the book, and he would 
have probably done that happily enough, perhaps assuming that if he 
wasn't there Merriman wouldn't be able to pull it out or something.
> 
>  
> > Merriman and the Light also gave Will a really horrible illness, 
> one 
> > where, as Bran says, the doctor didn't even realize how bad it 
> was. 
> > The Light did it to protect the prophecy temporarily. Will, when 
> he 
> > realizes this, has no problem.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hepatitis you mean? Well, yeah, Will IS an Old one, hehe. 

Magpie:
Right--he doesn't feel hurt that people made him suffer pretty 
horribly just to keep a prophecy safe for a relatively short time. 
He's got the same priorities.
> 
>  
> Magpie:
> <SNIP>
> > So, the thing is, Dumbledore's the one crying and saying how he 
> got 
> > to love Harry--he loved him like a person, and he needs/wants 
> Harry 
> > to love him back (Merriman and Will are prepared to accept the 
> hatred 
> > and mistrust of people). Merriman considers what happened to 
> Hawkin a 
> > serious mistake of his own (Merriman's--not Hawkin's). He doesn't 
> > hold Hawkin's betrayal of him against him.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I am comparing Dumbledore and Snape v Merryman and Walker. I do not 
> remember Dumbledore asking Snape to love him, no?

Magpie:
Oh--Snape. Then no. But even there there's a lot of differences. But 
I don't have a problem with the way Dumbledore treats Snape. 

Alla:
> 
> Yes, Merriman says it was his mistake, I know. But I am not sure I 
> agree that he does not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him. It is as 
> I said was an impression I was left with when I read the books few 
> years ago. Merryman says great words, but making Walker walk the 
> earh for many centuries does not look like not holding his betrayal 
> against him. IMO of course, but I thought his actions speak louder 
> than words.

Magpie:
But he doesn't make the Walker do that in anger to get back at him 
for hurting him personally. The Light is scary because they're 
judgments are carried out without emotion. "And the Doom that Hawkin 
has brought upon himself by this act," Merriman said, without 
expression, "is a dread matter, which will make him many times wish 
that he might die." Merriman's described as being without expression 
(until it softens). He's gone to the Dark and now Merriman is coldly 
judging him as the traitor--coldly, not angrily. He's the enemy now, 
and he's not going to treat him as anything else just because he 
likes him personally. 

Alla:
> 
> If he would not hold his betrayal against him, why didn't he just 
> let him go back to his century?

Magpie:
Because that's the punishment for betraying the Light to the Dark. 
They're fanatics to their cause and really harsh judges. The bad 
thing about betraying the Light isn't that they're going to be 
furious and go off on you--that's what the Dark does. The Light just 
looks at you with completely cold judgment and gives you the 
punishment for whatever you've done. (In Hawkin's case it's a 
biggie.) 

In a way, it's doubly sad for Hawkin, because he's the one with all 
this emotion--he feels so betrayed and he's so heavily punished for 
an understandable moment of weakness. But he's the only one wrapped 
up in his emotions about it. If Merriman were human he might feel 
personally betrayed by Hawkin and want to lash out at him because of 
it. Since he's an Old One he's just waiting out the end of his 
punishment. The more significant Hawkin wants to be to these people 
the more insignificant he is. 

-m