Harry Potter and God

[Geoff Bannister]

No.Limberger: (in message 39345)
> > I couldn't agree more. When something has been experimentally
> > demonstrated or repeated multiple times, or when there is overwhelming
> > scientifically-gathered data to support a theory, then there should be no
> > issues in accepting these as being sound.

Geoff: (in post 39346)
> >>I'm not quite sure I see the tie-in with what md wrote but what 
> >>you are highlighting are concrete, measureable facts.
 
> >You cannot use this approach when you dealing with things which
> >cannot be quantified in this way. you cannot use scientifically 
> >gathered data to deal with concepts such as love, faith, 
> >conscience or hope – to name but a handful.
 
No.Limberger: (in post 39347)
> >If you believe in something that cannot be tested and
> >qualified, then you have no idea whether it is factual.
> >Some Christians are bent on the teaching of creationism
> >as if that mythological belief has, in any way, any scientific
> >foundation as evolution does.  Some Christians refuse to
> >obtain medical care for themselves and/or their children
> >because it goes against their belief that they have to pray
> >to be cured.

No.Limberger: (latest post 39694)
> I came across a news article that ties directly into what I
> wrote on this thread nearly 2 months ago: some Christians
> refusing medical treatment either for themselves and/or
> their children.  In 2008, a couple living in the state of Oregon (in
> the U.S.) refused to obtain medical treatment for their
> 15-month old daughter due to their belief in their particular
> Christian sect that rejects all conventional medical treatment
> in favor of prayer.  The couple is now on trial for manslaughter
> in their daughter's death resulting from medical neglect, which
> included denying food to their daughter with the belief that that
> would also help heal their child who had developed a lump that
> was beginning to block the trachea.

Geoff:
That really doesn't address your original remarks about 
experimental support. My reply, quoted above, indirectly 
posed the question "how do you validate events and 
matters which cannot be approached in this way such as 
love, faith etc.?"

Your quoted report tackles a completely different matter.

In my reply 39346, I said:
In the UK, if you go round and ask people what their 
religion is, 80% or more will reply "Christian" – or
possibly "C of E" (Church of England). If you then 
press them further, it is often revealed that, for many 
of them, the only time they attend church is for a 
christening, marriage or funeral (the famous "hatched,
matched or despatched" trio). But there are also a large 
number of people attending church because they were 
brought up that way and go through the routines of their denomination – such as prayer meetings, mass, confession, 
Bible studies and such like – since they appear on the 
church diary. Obviously, the items mentioned do not actually 
belong to onespecific church. If you tackle them about 
personal Christian experience, they may look surprised 
having gone through the sort of progression which you 
mention and believe that that is the sum total of faith.

At the risk of being boring, I have said on many occasions 
that the bedrock of real Christian faith lies with some 
comments made by Christ when he was on earth. "For God so 
loved the world that he gave his only Son that whoever
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" 
(John's gospel chapter 3 verse 16) and "I am the way and 
the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except 
through me" (John chapter 14 verse 6). This all hinges on 
"belief".

The great problem which lies here is that if a person who 
is not a Christian believer comes across the sort of 
situation outlined above (which, incidentally, strikes me 
as more Jehovah's Witness than Christian) it produces a very distorted view of what our faith is all about. Christians, 
after coming to faith, are still fallible mortals who do 
things wrong, get the wrong end of the stick and focus on 
things which are not part of the true belief which Jesus 
taught.

Our task as given by Christ is to reach out to those around 
us to show his love and to try to tell people what God's 
love for the world means. Sadly, it is true that Christians 
often get in their own way in trying to do this but to really understand the Christian faith, any serious seeker should 
look to Christ rather than the Christian.