[HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue"

[marty at martynet.org]

No: HPFGUIDX 7450


> There is some 'old magic' that keeps Harry safe only when in the 
> 'care' of his relatives. It has been hinted at but not explained in 
> the text so far. And HP has to go to the Dursley at the beginning of 
> vacation, but then can go on to the Weasleys: is there something in 
> the 'old magic' that continues to keep him safe for some time after 
> he leaves the Dursleys, but he has to go back to them periodically 
> to refresh it?

Well, this is an interesting take on it, and one that makes some sense
to me....although they never explain it to Harry, really, which would
make it easier for him to bear, I would think.  I suppose he does know
that he's protected, so I guess he could put two and two together...
 
> > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an 
> > adolescent fling between Harry and Ron?  
> 
> Ha/R. It gets complicated when characters have the same initials 
> and you have to distinguish Ha/R from He/R (which in turn is a 
> little ironic: He is the girl), and specify Sn or Si for Snape or 
> Sirius, Du or Dr Dumbledore or Draco.

This is actually more what I meant when I asked the question. :->
 
> Before GoF came out, I would read the Ha/He shippers and the R/He 
> shippers and the Ha/G[inny] shippers and the Ha/Cho shippers, and 
> then reply that I thought Harry and Ron would suit each other best, 
> with their shared interests and Harry being able to keep his mouth 
> shut at times when anything anyone says sets Ron off (and sometimes 
> I would add that if only Ginny transferred her hero worship from 
> Harry The Boy Who Lived to Hermione The Genius Scholar, they could 
> suit each other's personalities quite well).

Hmmmm.....
 
> But I have to admit that GoF kind of knocked a hole in that for me. 
> First, while Harry could still grow up to be gay or bi, as he still 
> seems to be trying not to have a sexual orientation at all (as part 
> of a desire to avoid intimacy -- and it should be easy to figure out 
> where he learned to distruct intimacy!), but Ron has been acting 
> quite thoroughly heterosexual lately, leering down girls' necklines 
> and stuff. Also, Harry hasn't been doing such a good job of coddling 
> Ron's temper lately.

Wellll.....first of all, I think there's a difference in growing up to
be gay or bi, and doing some adolescent exploration.  I think a lot of
people do some of that (and many others don't), and I don't think it
has much bearing on where one eventually ends up on the spectrum.

Second, acting heterosexual is no indication.  Lots of people who 
aren't sure where they stand will try hard to emphasize where they want
to be, to convince themselves if nothing else.  I know lots of queer
men and women (of various stripes) who tried to "get over it" for years
by acting hyper-het.  Given Ron's general insecurity, though, it would
be difficult to decide if he's just being an adolescent boy, worried
about a perceived deficit of general masculinity, or dealing with
uncomfortable sexual feelings.

> I regularly use the "thing he'd miss most" to argue that Viktor's 
> feelings for Hermione are at least sincere. He may be an 18 year old 
> trying to date a 14 or 15 year old, but she wouldn't have been his 
> hostage if he were just a 'playa' (as someone said back in Yahoo! 
> days). He either is real messed up, or he was able to appreciate 
> Hermione's excellences despite youth, big teeth (not shrunk yet when 
> he began chasing her), and a bossy sort of voice. I prefer to 
> believe the latter, which speaks exceptionally well of him, and at 
> this time, I would like to match Hermione with Viktor. I suppose 
> he'll either die or be revealed as a Darksider in the next volume, 
> sigh. 

I agree with you, I liked the pairing (although I'm not sure I vote 
for it as a long-term thing).  I think Viktor was attracted to 
Hermione because she showed herself to be a person of substance and 
was not chasing him. Viktor seems to me to be a very lonely person; 
it's a shame he and Harry didn't have time to talk more, because I 
think they'd have something to share about what it's like to be 
pursued and idolized because you're famous rather than for yourself
(although it doesn't seem like a lot of girls are going after Harry 
for this reason, at least not yet).  Also, I think Viktor
recognized in Hermione some of his own self-discipline and the urge
to strive for excellence, albeit in different spheres.


Marty