[HPforGrownups] Dumbledore the not-necessarily-good (Far too long)

[Jinx]

No: HPFGUIDX 1258



>      **
>      SUSAN SAID (Re. Lord of the Rings - why do people keep mentioning
it?):
>      "Have you read LOTR, Neil? If you have, you'll know that these
> analogies        just jump out at you.......There are dozens of
> similarities....."
>      **
>
> No, I haven't read "Lord of the Rings".  Exactly like Penny, I've read
"The
> Hobbit" and I have a bookmark stuck about a third of the way through my
copy
> of LOTR, left there when I was about 20. Just shoot me!
>
> It just struck me that there had been a series of comments made about
> similarities between LOTR and the Harry Potter books [quite interesting,
but
> not evidence of anything], and suddenly this seminal work was being used
to
> support the supposition that JKR was bound to a similar balance of Good
> against Evil.  The quote that Brooks dug out indicates that JKR read LOTR
> when she was 14, but it obviously didn't change her life.

It need not have changed her life.  The HP books are funnier and better
written for a start.  But there are similarities in characterisation and
plot, and I don't think its' a coincidence.  Even if JKR only read it once
and didn't fall in love, it's not impossible that certain plot devices were
retained by her subconscious and later resurfaced while she was writing
HP...


> I don't want to be labelled as 'Neil - that fool who thinks Dumbledore is
> evil'.  My original intention was to try to explain why Dumbledore
overlooks
> Snape's unpleasant behaviour, by suggesting that this would not present
such
> a dilemma if Dumbledore were not automatically assumed to be the force for
> good.
> Dumbledore is flawed, he is fallible and there may be some darker secrets
> within him.  I threw up the idea that he might turn out to be the 'baddie'
> in a startling denouement, but, deep down,  I don't really think he is
evil.
> I agree that he probably is a force for good, but I remain suspicious of
his
> motives and I don't trust him.

Of course Dumbledore's not perfect.  He merely appears so because it is
Harry telling the story, and when you are Harry's age, adults appear very
archetypal in nature.  Thus he sees Dumbledore as the ultimate benevolent
father deity who can do anything and is perfect.  As he matures, this
changes as the archetypal projection gets withdrawn and he becomes aware of
Dumbledore's fallibility.  We will follow the same process to a certain
extent as we read the books.  However, because we are older and more
cynical, we're also aware of the adult characters' flaws and ambiguities.
We don't revere them to the extent Harry does and we're more aware of their
humanity.  However, this does not make Dumbledore a secret undercover
servant of Voldemort.  To distrust someone merely because he does not live
up to godlike standards is the mark of an immature mind.

> In previous posts, I've also mentioned Dumbledore's mental state and
> decline, as I think some of his later behaviour may fall outside his
> currently accepted persona.
>
> There are three more books in this series and the chances are that none of
> us will be able to predict what JKR has in store for Albus Dumbledore.
> Personally, I see the overriding story arc turning into a power struggle,
> rather than one of merely Good vs Evil.  You can string me up later, when
> I'm proved wrong <g>.

I personally think that Dumbledore will remain as he is until the last.
However, that will come sooner than expected.  My theory is that AD will
snuff it of old age at a really inopportune moment and leave HP to cope with
Voldy without him.  Followed by Snape taking over as Hogwarts Head.  : )

> Uh? Well, Penny has already said it, but I'll add that I am not on an
> anti-fantasy crusade either.  I think I said the genre seems quite rigid
to
> me, and I suppose I should have specified that I mean the LOTR-type stuff.
> I enjoy fantasy literature and I can thank JK Rowling for having inspired
my
> research in this domain and opened up new possibilities for my already
> groaning bookshelves.
>
> I may even attempt LOTR again. one day.

Some fantasy is really good.  Some of it sticks with the same
Elves/Men/Orcs/Dwarves mould with virtually interchangeable characters from
book to book and never really evolves beyond swords and sorcery LOTR fanfic.
It's like action flicks with magic involved.  You have to be careful with
these things.

Jinx