Cultural Differences and examinations. Also a mention of bouncing ferrets. This post is long.

[Simon Branford]

No: HPFGUIDX 2521

Joywitch wrote: "Also, there were some posts from people saying that
Hermione should not have been allowed to take so many classes in PoA, but
that attitude seems to reflect a very American attitude towards education
(where we treat kids like idiots, spoon feed them garbage that they
regurgitate on standardized tests, and then we are shocked when they dont
know how to read). Of course that is an exaggeration, but the traditional
British attitude seems to lean more towards *force them to study themselves
to death or theyll never learn a thing*."

I am not sure that I agree the comments about Hermione. She chose to do the
subjects and was not forced by anyone else. I think that it taught Hermione
a very important lesson about biting off more than you can chew. If someone
had just said that she couldn't do it then she would not have believed him
or her but this way taught her large amounts about her own limitations.

Following on from this it is the word 'force' that I object to in your
statement. The British education system tries to help those who want to help
themselves. If, as a student, you want to do nothing then the teachers quite
often give up on you and move onto someone who appreciates the help they are
being given.

IMO the English system is moving too much towards the standardised
regurgitate all you know type of tests. How much someone knows is not all
that is important, seeing how they can apply what they know to an entirely
unknown situation needs to be examined more. This is basically how my
university examinations (I am reading mathematics) are structured. A few
marks go towards reciting some learnt information, a few more to applying it
in an already seen situation and then the bulk of the marks on applying it
some unexpected way. Also very important is knowing how the different areas
interlink. Too many sections within a subject are taught separately.

I got by in A-level physics with a very good memory and producing a piece of
coursework of massive length (I think the two pieces ran to over 100 pages)
but no real substance. I understood little of what I was being asked to do
but was able to do well as I could remember all the formulae and then apply
them perfectly. This, IMO, is not what exams are about. When in the real
world would you not be able to go over and pick up a textbook to find a
formula that you needed?

How this applies to other subjects I am not too sure! Some problems are
definitely caused by trying to teach subjects in a scientific manor. Books
and poems should not be analysed in a step-by-step approach. English
literature (as a subject) is an art and as such should be about how you
react and the emotions felt.

Joywitch wrote: "Another example of differing interpretations is peoples
attitudes towards the harshness of Snape and the bullying of Draco. Most of
the Americans seem appalled that this sort of behavior would be allowed.
While that sort of behavior IS certainly appalling, it is possible that it
is simply more acceptable in Britian than in the U.S. It is certainly the
type of behavior commonly depicted in novels about British boarding
schools."

This type of behaviour (I am talking about Snape to begin with), as long as
it does not go too far, does a lot more good than harm. It teaches someone
how to stand up to, but react entirely in an appropriate manor, towards a
superior. If it is really a big problem to Harry then why has he not
complained, especially in the many instances he has had to talk to
Dumbledore by himself?

The bullying of Draco is quite easy to explain. Has Harry, Ron or Hermione
ever complained to a teacher (apart from Snape)? I think the answer to this
is no. If the triad does nothing about informing the teachers then these
teachers could quite easily have never seen anything that they could take
action about. Also we have seen how it has taught Harry, Ron and Hermione
how to stand up for themselves. Draco seems to be quite careful never to do
anything in front of the teachers that could get him into trouble, except of
course for the bouncing ferret incident (I could not resist putting in a
mention of this).
There has only really been a small amount of insults thrown by Draco at
Harry and co. There have been a few tricks played on them but they have done
just as many back. To my mind this is just typical school children stuff.
Maybe this answers the question - as I find it perfectly acceptable!

Peg wrote: "But thirdly, Lupin is a teacher. And teachers have to be
sensitive to parental fears that if they touch the kids their teach, they're
some kind of perverts who are coming on to their kids. Maybe it's more an
issue in America, where there have been several scandals about teachers who
did cross the line with their students, making everyone paranoid and gun-shy
about litigation."

This is not quite about the same thing but there is a major case going
through the legal system at the moment concerning appropriate and
inappropriate restraint of children in schools by the teaching staff. This
is quite clearly very important as it has major implications to the whole
teaching profession. The original case concerned an allegation of the head
teacher (female) slapping a pupil who was stopped from going on a swimming
trip due to misbehaviour. She was found guilty as first but then went to
appeal. At appeal the judge said that none of the prosecution witnesses (one
of whom is a teacher at the same school) where reliable and cleared her.
Since then various other allegations have emerged. It says something when in
these case the parents of the children who the offences have allegedly been
committed against say the head teacher has done nothing wrong.

If the head teacher is found guilty then there, quite obviously, will be
hundreds of allegations based on the smallest action by a teacher. My
concern about this case is because my dad is a teacher and has only a few
years until he retires.

Amanda wrote: "... when I was talking about how we all are applying American
judgements, based on American ideas of how to educate kids, to what's going
on at Hogwarts. I, too, would like to know what any British members of the
list think-do "American attitudes" dominate? Are there any "American
attitudes" per se?"

Comments like do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes
spring to mind.
America is a big place and IMO there is no such thing as an "American
attitude". I think it is more down to the differences between the people
writing the messages than necessarily the differences caused by being
brought up in a different country. After all we have all had different
upbringings.
I have found little difficulty making my feelings known in this group. Part
of the joy of being a member of this group is arguing why you think your
point is correct.

Simon