[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape as DE/HP goes PC?

[Samaporn Teeravechyan]

No: HPFGUIDX 16793

At 03:25 AM 4/15/01 -0000, you wrote:
>--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Catlady <catlady at w...> wrote:
>> How big of an idiot does Fudge have to be not to know that Snape was
>> once a DE when Fudge was working at the Ministry at the time that  
>> it was announced in open court, with reporters present, that Snape 
>> had formerly been a DE but had become a spy for Our Side at great  
>> personal risk?
>
>I doubt that Snape was apprehended like Karkaroff was; rather, I 
>think he went straight to Dumbledore when he decided to turn back to 
>Our Side. So, Dumbledore and Snape went to private trial, perhaps 
>with a small council, (Crouch, etc.) and went on their way. Snape 
>became a spy.

I seem to recall Dumbledore saying that Snape was never tried for being a
Death Eater. My guess is, as you say, it was a private agreement between
Dumbledore and Snape, with a few other people informed as necessary. 


********

>We started with House Elves and worked around to Dogs and Cats and I 
>suppose that any replies which are not about Sirius, Crookshanks, and 
>Mrs. Norris should go to the Off-Topic list...

You'll forgive me if I just tack the answer to the end of this message; one
HPforGrownups mailing list is quite enough =P.

>> I feel very strongly about the idea that any
>> other living creature should be in a state of natural servitude
>> to humans. 
>
>Dogs.
>
>Just about every breed of dog has a natural instinct to obey its pack 
>leader and to seek the approval of its pack leader, and most breeds 
>of dog have the instinct that its pack leader is a human and not to 
>challenge the human pack leader for dominance.

I agree that there is a social structure among canines, and that in a pack,
there is generally an alpha male to which the rest are more or less
submissive. That a displaced dog (i.e. a pet) will see its human owner as
the pack leader is not surprising. However, that does not mean that dogs
are -naturally- servile to 
-humans-. 

>I cannot consider it 
>'absolutely unnatural' to have a natural behavior pattern, just 
>pointed to a different direction than in the wild. 

Exactly. I guess we essentially agree except on the sticky matter of mere
semantics. With humans going around disrupting natural animal social
structures left and right, there will certainly be a displacement of
natural behaviour on to humans instead. I simply interpreted Naama's
statements as meaning that she wanted to see a scenario where elves (as a
race) were by nature subservient to humans (as a race) - and wanted to say
that I'd feel extremely uncomfortable with such an arrangement because
-that- would seem so unnatural (unless you have some sort of omnipotent
diety, but let's not get into that).

Samaporn


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les
yeux." - le renard, "Le Petit Prince"

"Knowing others is wisdom;
 Knowing the self is enlightenment.
 Mastering others requires force;
 Mastering the self needs strength."  - Lao Tzu, "Tao te Ching"