Abanes Answers Witch

[mdartagnan at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 17566

Hello.

Though I really enjoy the discussions here, I seldom post (basically, 
for lack of time and for Spanish being my main language, so excuse my 
grammar). Anyway, I'd like to comment a couple of points about what Mr. 
Abannes has written regarding Harry's ethic.


> > Simon's point, that Harry rescues Gabrielle at this juncture, as 
> well as  saving Pettigrew's life in PoA, is excellent. Surely this 
> does show moral fiber?
> 
> ANSWER: See my posted response to simon.


I wouldn't like to begin a religious debate, and I won't do it. But, if 
the chance to save a life falls in our hands, should we JUDGE who 
deserves it and who doesn't? Gabrielle was an innocent, Petter was a 
traitor... but both are HUMAN BEINGS that deserved the chance to live. 
We don't have the right to decide who lives and who dies, and that 
point is perfectly made by Mrs. Rowling with Cedric's death. 


> 1. Harry and indeed all the so-called good characters CHEAT 
> throughout the Tri-Wizard tournament. Interestingly, if Harry 
> would have had some integrity, and not cheated like everyone 
> else, he probably would have lost and Cedric would still be alive.


Anyway, it's precisely Harry's integrity that forces him to cheat, by 
telling Cedric the first task is dragons. He knew everybody but Cedric 
were already preparing for them. He knows Cedric might get hurt, maybe 
even killed. By telling Cedric, remember, he's placing himself in a 
disadvantage (he doesn't know as much magic as Cedric). If being fair 
and even loyal, maybe cheating, reflects a lack of integrity... I'd 
wish all my friends lacked such integrity as well.



> 2. Harry not only helps Hagrid break the restrictions he is under 
> per Dumbledore, but also helps Hagrid break Wizard Laws 
> against illegal pets.


But, wasn't it obvious that Harry, Ron and Hermione tried to make 
Hagrid change his mind? What should they do: quit on Hagrid, stop being 
their friends because of that? If we only looked for perfect persons as 
friends, we would be left alone in this world.



> 3. Harry consistently breaks school rules and lies to, well, just 
> about everyone whnever it is convenient. As Dumbledore so 
> beautifully articulates, "[T]he truth is GENERALLY preferrable to 
> lies (4:722). Generally???? Now that's a good lesson for my kid.


On one hand, I guess you've forgotten that the main characters are 
teenagers.
And have you heard of pious lies? Maybe that's what Dumbledore refered 
to by "generally".


> 4. Hagrid, as lovable as he may appear to be, actually is one of 
> the biggest rule-breaking, misbehaving, self-centered, 
> law-breaking criminal of the series. Oh, and if you notice, he is 
> regularly drunk!! Again, what a great role-model.


But he's absolutely loyal, truthful with his friends, noble, brave, 
loving, generous (please notice he's the first person in Harry's life 
that's actually kind and loving to him). In my opinion, that's more 
than a compensation for his rule-breaking. 

BTW, I've always had a doubt... It seems to me that role-models should 
be real persons, like parents or friends and, of course, religious 
figurees. Why do some persons insist on looking for role-models in the 
media or literature? 


> 5. Another excellent role model is Mr. Weasley (sarcasm). This 
> guy is nothing but a weak-willed hypocrite who lies to his wife. 
> His two boys run ruffshod oer him. he is SUPPOSED to keep 
> wizards from bewitching muggle artifacts (even having them 
> arrested), while he himself does exactly what he is supposed to 
> be standing against (like cops who take cocaine from busts and 
> sell it). And he lies to his wife -- great.

Please, read my comment about Hagrid. Mr Weasley is, actually, the only 
caring father figure in the whole series. THE ONLY ONE. And, you know? 
With all his flaws, his sons and daughters LOVE HIM. That's more 
important than breaking rules, don't you think? 

Or, are the Weasleys in an ethical mistake for loving this caring 
father and accepting him just like he is? 



> Wake up. Oh, by the way, Sean Sellers, executed on Feb. 4, 1999 
> was a practicing occultist when he brutally murdered 3 people, 
> including his parents in 1986. 


No, sir, you're the one who must wake up. Religious intolerance has 
killed —and still is— lots of persons in this world. Their only crime 
was having a different faith (be then Jews, Gypsies, Latinamerican 
Natives). I'm not saying that deaths causes by occultism are less 
important, in no way... But before criticizing others, we should 
criticize first OURSELVES and "accept" whatever mistakes our Religion 
or Racial group has done. If our religion or race is free of guilt, 
then... be my guest and begin criticizing.


> ANSWER: My gosh, where do you get your information? Go read 
> som ereal history rather than materials generated by pagan 
> organizations and Wiccans who revise history in order to fit their 
> needs today as 21st century neo-pagans I would ask that people 
> on this board simply go do some non-fiction reading (history) to 
> get the straight scoop on the above.


I think you're underestimating most of the persons who post here. You 
should, first, learn which are our professions or hobbies before 
stating that we don't read any history or non-fiction. Yes, that means 
researching.

Or do you think you're the only one with a college degree here? 

Please, if we are to continue this debate, you don't need to be so 
sarcastic. 

> ANSWER: You are a pagan? And you do not know techniques of 
> divination???? Now you are playing games. That's like a football 
> player saying he doesn't know what the words offense and 
> defense mean. PA-leese.


Please, you're being treated kindly and we're reading your messages. 
Your sarcasm is completely innecesary.
To continue this debate, please
a) Quote in the proper context.
b) Don't change the sense of such quote.
c) Don't be ironic.

And, as a sidenote... you don't have to be a pagan to know techniques 
of adivination, even if you don't believe in them.


> ANSWER: Rowling herself says that she studied magic, 
> occultism, and Witchcraft in order to write the books and that up 
> to 1/3 of what she has in her books is real. Sorry. Regarding the 
> channelling, Trelawney's prophetic episode is CLASSIC 
> spiritism and mediumship. Again, sorry.


I guess someone already answered this much better than anything I could 
have managed. ^^


> ANSWER: Ahhh. The altar call for converts. Enjoyed our 
> exchange.


Mr Abannes, I'm a catholic. I have Jewish, Christian and, in your 
words, Pagan friends. If I don't have Wiccan or Gypsy friends, it's 
because I haven't had the chance. I've found out we can all get along 
if we learn to *listen*.

I understand that you want to defend your book and your viewpoints, but 
believe me, this is not the right attitude. Maybe you should learn to *
listen*. And maybe, just maybe, to read. No, not Jo Rowling's book. 
Your Bible, which is filled with messages of Love and Tolerance, though 
many persons (thank God, a minority) refuse to understand.



Sincerely,
Marijose Díaz