Calvinism - SB & SS - 3rd task - Playwizard - What's scary - Halloween

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 23695

Milz wrote:

>I think it's because the wizarding community was dismayed that Sirius 
> not only managed to fool James, Lily and Dumbledore, but he was 
enough 
> of a sociopath at age 11 to fool the Sorting Hat (something even 
> Voldemort wasn't able to do).  

So in your view, the wizarding world does take a completely 
predestinarian view of the Houses.  Couldn't they be dismayed because 
he went bad *since* 11, despite being in a "good guy" house?  I'm 
thinking of the response you see in the papers when a supposedly 
stable, happy person commits murder.

I don't think anything about Houses has to be supposed, myself.  
Sirius was shocking because he murdered 13 people, and for those who 
knew more of the story, even more shocking because he betrayed his 
best friend.  Does surprise that a Gryffindor would behave this way 
even need to come into it?

> However, I would only be 
> disappointed if good doesn't triumph completely over evil. There's 
too 
> much leaving the door open for a sequel these days.

The end of PS/SS suggests very strongly to me that while Voldemort may 
be killed (I'm betting he will), Good is not going to triumph over 
Evil.  There is always evil and good people always have to rise up who 
will challenge it.

  "Well, Voldemort's going to try other ways of coming back, isn't he? 
 I mean, he hasn't gone, has he?"
  "No, Harry, he has not . . . . Nevertheless, Harry, while you may 
only have delayed his return to power, it will merely take someone 
else who is prepared to fighte what seems a losing battle next 
time--and if he is delayed again, and again, why, he may never return 
to power." 

This isn't *proof* of my point, because it's only talking about V, but 
it does support the idea that there's no magic bullet that will do in 
Evil Itself.  And then there's the fact that when Dumbledore defeated 
one evidently powerful Dark Wizard, the next one was already well on 
the way to the top of Evil Wizardness.  Dumbledore is our window onto 
the long view.

I wrote:

 > Snape, though, looks to be headed for escape from
 > predestination, what with his abandoning the DE path "at great
 > personal risk."  That's what makes him the most interesting 
character
 > so far to me.

Amanda pointed out:

> You *can't* escape from predestination. That's what predestination
> means. If Snape is acting honorably, it is because he was 
predestined to
> do so. 

Right.  Let's try again.  What I meant was Snape looks headed to 
rescue *us* from the conclusion that JKR's universe is one in which 
predestination is the law.

One can fit any plot whatsoever, just as one can fit any life event, 
into the predestinarian scheme, because in Calvinism everything that 
happens fulfills God's will, even the things that seem to be thwarting 
it, and even actions that appear free are predestined in every detail. 
 But *as readers* we can either have that theme reinforced or we can 
be told, "no, human choices are real and make a difference."  With 
Snape, JKR seems to be affirming the latter.

(Though to further split a theological hair, surely you can be a 
Calvinist and still believe in free will . . . philosophers call this 
compatibilism, the belief that free will and determinism are not 
mutually exclusive.)
Marianne wrote:

> Asking Sirius to transform back to his human form in 
> front of Snape sends a message to both of them.  It says to 
> Sirius, "I trust Snape enough to reveal your secret Animagus 
identity 
> to him - you can trust him, too."  And it says to Snape, "I've given 
> the vital secret of Sirius' disguise and I trust you will not use it 
> against him or reveal this to the wrong people."

Beautifully said.  

It also sends them both a similar message about Sirius:  to Sirius, "I 
know you're able to rise above your old hatred to work with Snape"--an 
affirmation that he can control his impulsiveness, and to Snape: 
"Sirius is not only not all the things you believe he is, but so 
trustworthy that we can trust him with your life and our plans."

One other thing I've been thinking about this scene, not for the first 
time:  one of the real shockers to Snape is the evident relationship 
between Harry and Sirius.  Whatever the heck Dumbledore knows that 
makes him trust Sirius, Harry was in on it long before he, Snape, was. 
 Also, Harry, who should hate Sirius more than anyone else does, has 
clearly undergone a 180-degree turnaround, and not because he's 
Confunded.  I imagine this is part of the reappraising look of the 
final feast.  

Catherine asked:

> If Harry had refused to take the 
> cup, and Cedric had been forced into taking it, what would 
> Crouch/Moody have done to resolve the situation?

He must've been watching their interaction, since his job wasn't done 
until Harry took the Cup.  Maybe if Cedric approached the Cup alone 
he'd have cast some kind of curse that makes it look like someone's 
had a heart attack?  Hmm.  He would have had a hard time doing 
anything that wouldn't result in Harry not taking the Cup, since if 
Cedric suddenly keeled over Harry would send up red sparks.

I like the thought of Crouch watching this scene and sweating over 
that #%*^@ Potter lousing things up again.  Decent people aren't 
always so easy to manipulate after all.

Eric wrote:

> Something that occurred to me about wizard photographs---are there
> wizard-oriented girlie magazines?  

Human nature being what it is, the answer has to be yes.  They'd be a 
lot more exciting than the Muggle equivalent--a centerfold who strips!

Belinda wrote:

> (He's the mayor in Jaws, even as a kid I thought he was
> way scarier than the fish.)

LOL!  So true.  One of my favorite movie moments:  Richard Dreyfuss 
ranting, "I think you are not going to deal with this *particular* 
problem until it swims up and bites you on the ass!"

Re: the Pagan origins of Christian and secular holidays:  the fact 
that they celebrate Halloween and Christmas at Hogwarts doesn't 
indicate that the wizarding world is Pagan any more than Muggle 
celebrations of those holidays suggest the Muggles in question are 
Pagan!

JKR does put particular emphasis on Halloween--it isn't really the 
biggest or second-biggest holiday of the year in most British boarding 
schools, is it?  meriting a feast and all that?--but I'm inclined to 
think that there is no religious statement there, just her joke that 
of course witches and wizards would make a big holiday of Halloween, 
the one holiday of the Muggle year where witches are prominently 
featured.

Amy Z

---------------------------------------------------------------
 "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could =never
 stop reading=!  You just had to wander around with your nose 
 in it, trying to do everything one-handed."
                    --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
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