All things Snape plus Harry (pt 1)

[koinonia02]

No: HPFGUIDX 31107

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "gwendolyngrace" <lee_hillman at u...> wrote:
 
> Yes! It's not only *Snape's* blanching that suggests danger, it's
> Dumbledore's own anxiety in this scene that is telling.

I guess 'The Parting of the Ways' in GoF is my favorite chapter of 
all the books. I love the part where Snape just says he is ready and  
goes off to do what needs to be done regardless of the danger.  
Dumbledore seems very concerned and it's nice to think that someone 
truly cares about Snape.


>And I have no problem with Dumbledore taking him on
> as a sort of rehab/community service project. Actually, it feels 
>like
> a very Albus thing to do.

Dumbledore is a wonderful man who I just love.  I don't have any 
problem with him giving Snape a second chance *depending* on what 
Snape did.  Murder and torture?  Not someone I would want teaching my 
kids.  I'm afraid he would have to do his rehab in Azkaban. I'm still 
hoping Snape jumped ship at the first sign of murder and never 
committed such acts.


>I think this is one instance where Sirius
> does misinform the kids and the audience by not understanding all 
>the
> facts. Not his fault, mind. :^)

Poor Sirius.  He just can't look at Snape without hate in his eyes.

 
> It really depends on the line reading there, I agree. What I mean 
>is,
> is Voldemort stating that "I believe" as an expression of doubt, or 
>as
> a considered hypothesis?
> 
> I tend to read it with slightly more emphasis on the theory,
> especially when coupled with the confident, "He will be killed, of
> course." But I still have faith in Snape's ability to occupy that
> sliver of doubt that I also believe (aha, see?) is there.

I have always felt that Voldemort showed just a bit of doubt as to 
whether this person had truly left him.  Since that person didn't 
show up at the DE meeting he will now have that person killed.  

 
> Besides, if V doubted Snape's loyalty and wanted to know for sure, 
>why
> wait? Why not seize the opportunity to enlist him in PS?

Voldemort is weak at this time.  I don't believe he wanted to take a 
chance of ruining his comeback.  I doubt if would have been able to 
defend himself against Snape and Dumbledore. Of course I still 
believe Dumbledore needed for V to be in another bodily form in order 
to truly defeat him. Voldemort couldn't be done away with as he was.  
But that leads to another topic.

  
> I think if he really feared that Snape wouldn't help him, he would 
>be
> more certain that Snape is a traitor. IOW, either he thinks Snape
> might be with him when the time comes, and is waiting for some 
>reason
> in PS, or he thinks Snape needs to be reminded that he made a 
>mistake
> and is ready to kill him in GOF, and waited to reveal himself in PS
> because he wanted to be stronger at the confrontation.

Voldemort has had two opportunites to employ the help of Snape and he 
never did.  He never asked for help from Snape in PS or in GoF. It 
would surely have been to his advantage in both those instances to 
have his help.  After all V. did accept the help of Wormtail.    

"I see you all, whole and healthy, with your powers intact---such 
prompt appearances!---and I ask myself...why did this band of wizards 
never come to the aid of their master, to whom they swore eternal 
loyalty?  

"And I answer myself," whispered Voldemort, "they must have believed 
me broken, they thought I was gone.  They slipped back among my 
enemies, and they pleaded innocence, and ignorance, and 
bewitchment..."

"And I answer myself, perhaps they believed a still greater power 
could exist, one that could vanquish even Lord Voldemort...perhaps 
they now pay allegiance to another... perhaps that champion of 
commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles, Albus Dumbledore."

"Surely, one of my faithful Death Eaters would try and find me...one 
of them would come and perform the magic I could not, to restore me 
to a body..but I waited in vain..."

"Oh, he seemed the very chance I had been dreaming of...for he was a 
teacher at Dumbledore's school..."

I don't think V would have passed up help from Snape at any time if 
he knew for certain that Snape was still a loyal DE.  Plus, Voldemort 
seemed excited to finally have someone he could rely on at 
Hogwarts.  "Oh, he seemed the very chance I had been dreaming 
of..."Then why did he never approach Snape?  Just think what he could 
have done with both Crouch Jr. and Snape.  I just think there was 
some doubt in his mind as to Snape's loyalties.  Just the fact that 
Snape was teaching at Hogwarts where Albus Dumbledore is headmaster 
would make V have doubts and we all know how much V dislikes Albus.

 
I think we are all pretty sure
> that we're building up to a major conflict in which most of the
> magical world will be involved. If anyone thinks there will not be a
> showdown between the arrayed forces of good and evil, please explain
> how it would be avoided!
> 
> Assuming that's right and like most books that take G&E as their
> theme, there will be a War, the question is *how* will this conflict
> build to a climax? And then what will be the result?
> I'm not saying that JKR couldn't come up with some surprising move
> that we couldn't anticipate.

<snip>

>But at this point, the development to >war
> is so palpable, I have trouble believing that focusing anywhere else
> is going to do them any good.
> 
> It's likely that V will begin attracting supporters again, through 
his
> faithful lieutenants. It's likely that he'll use supernatural means 
to
> secure the assistance of those dark creatures we heard him talk 
about.
> But he'll be doing it all quietly (if he's smart), so it won't 
exactly
> be easy to figure out where his army is in terms of rally, supplies,
> battle plans, and above all, his first public act.

Like Voldemort I believe Dumbledore is also getting his supporters 
together.  Actually I believe Dumbledore has surrounded himself for 
years with those that he knows he will need when it's time to face 
Voldemort again.

 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean about other spies. Do you mean Dumbledore
> had other spies in V's camp? Or do you mean he has access to
> information without someone on the inside?

POA "Worse even than that, m'dear...'Fudge dropped his voice and 
proceeded in a sort of low rumble. 'Not many people are aware that 
the Potters knew You-Know-Who was after them.  Dumbledore, who was of 
course working tirelessly against You-Know-Who, had a number of 
useful spies."

I imagine that there are still some of those spies still around.  Who 
knows, maybe Snape wasn't the only DE spy for Dumbledore.

 
> I guess what I'm saying here is that while alliances may be 
important,
> knowing V's plan *right now* is just as important--and Snape is the
> natural man for that job.

I do agree that Dumbledore needs to know what is going on and Snape 
could very well be the man.  

> 
> Again, it's remotely possible, but if you think S is a vampire, and 
if
> he's been negotiating with them for a long time, then why would 
Albus
> fear for his safety among them?

I guess he would fear them if he had left them or maybe no one knows 
he is a vampire.  Maybe he is going to introduce himself to all his 
brother and sister vampires for the first time ;-)  


 
> I don't really have time to go further right now. 

Neither do I.  I'm being pressured to press the 'send' button at this 
very moment and I'm afraid it might be days until I make it back here.

I really wanted to comment more on Lucius and Harry but that will 
have to wait.

Koinonia