What to do if you hate SHIPping; Sailing, Sailing....and arguing 'bout the SHIPS

[raolin.rm]

No: HPFGUIDX 31503

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce <pennylin at s...> wrote:
> As much as I agree with most of Joshua's points on this subject 
(<g>), 
> even I can't agree with this.  I do think there are subtle clues to 
> Ron's growing attraction to Hermione, starting perhaps with the 
belching 
> slugs incident in CoS (and certainly his determination to brave the 
> spiders in CoS).  Of course, the characters aren't anywhere near to 
the 
> point of having acknowledgeable romantic feelings at that stage, 
but I 
> think JKR was setting up the foundation for what would become 
crystal 
> clear by mid-way through GoF.  Let's just say that Ron's behavior 
in the 
> entire Yule Ball sequence wasn't exactly surprising to me.


When I recently reread the belching slugs incident, precisely because 
it had been used as evidence in this very issue, I was surprised to 
note that Fred, George and Alicia Spinnet got just as angry as Ron 
did -- Fred and George had to be held back by Marcus Flint so they 
didn't pound the stuffing out of Malfoy, as a matter of fact.  Aside 
from the naughty fanfics about menage a trois relationships, or odd 
slash pairings with older girls, it really looks to me like this 
incident is designed to show how rude and insulting the phrase 
Mudblood really is, rather than how much Ron is starting to care for 
Hermione.  I also didn't see the portrayal of his reaction to 
Hermione's petrification as particularly indicative of anything 
either -- in fact, that was surprisingly undertoned, I thought, and 
Ron almost had to be bullied by Harry to go anywhere near the 
spiders.  In other words, although I had heard this stuff tossed out 
as evidence, I found it surprisingly unconvincing on later, more 
detailed examination.



> I think this interpretation of the potential ending of the series 
may be 
> one of the most fundamental differences amongst the shippers.  On 
the 
> whole (and speaking in huge generalities), I would say that many or 
most 
> R/H and/or H/G shippers believe that the books are essentially 
> well-written fairy tales, essentially childrens' lit (I know you 
don't 
> agree on that particular point, bbennett!), and will have a happy 
> fairy-tale ending.  By contrast, many of the H/H shippers don't 
think 
> these are childrens' books per se, don't think they fit the fairy 
tale 
> formula & doubt seriously that the ending will be "happily ever 
after" 
> for everyone.  I know my own take on the potential ending is that 
it 
> will be optimistic & forward-looking but not syrupy sweet & all 
wrapped 
> up in a bow.


I agree 100% on how the series will likely end.  And when I say fairy 
tale, I don't mean literally, but I was referring specifically to the 
romantic relationship angle.  It is surprising that we never hear of 
anybody at all who's divorced in the series, or otherwise suffering 
from relationship problems.  Possibly it's a result of Harry's 
exposure and not the way things really are and as we are gradually 
being brought into a more adult world as Harry's perspective changes, 
perhaps we'll see something along these lines.  I'm not going to try 
and speculate on JKR's feelings relative to relationships and how her 
own very brief marriage may play on that, but it is food for thought.


> Eh ... 'fraid I must disagree here too. I don't think he had 
anything 
> more than a superficial crush on her at best; it's not as though we 
saw 
> the two of them interacting much at all.  He really never knew Cho 
as a 
> person, and the tragic circumstances of Cedric's death & Harry's 
role in 
> all that led to it will doubtless keep Cho far from his mind.  I 
can't 
> imagine in my wildest dreams that Harry would continue to have a 
crush 
> on her after all that's happened.  Is it the kiss of doom for the 
> Harry/Cho shippers?  Possibly not.  But probably it is at least 
> temporarily suspended if nothing else.


I agree that the crush was superficial.  However, I think Harry never 
really confronted his feelings (which seem in some regards, to at 
least not have been spurned by Cho) or had closure on them, and I'd 
be surprised to see that whole episode left unremarked on in Book5.  
By this time around, Harry may feel more guilt and awkwardness rather 
than attraction, but one way or another, I think he needs to work 
that out still.



> Yes, and like me, you'd probably be horrified by the number of 
fanfics 
> out there where Hermione is just a chronologically older version of 
her 
> PS/SS bossy self.  Grrr.....


Horrified, but not surprised.  I've noticed a lot that Hermione seems 
to be in a rut in a lot of people's minds.


> Exactly.  But then, some fans think that Ron is the only funny 
person in 
> the Trio.  Yes, I know that 14 yr old Harry doesn't like hanging 
out in 
> the library all the time & he thinks that having just Hermione 
around 
> isn't as much fun.  But, don't 'cha think that outlook might change 
a 
> bit as they continue to age?  They won't be 14 forever, ya know.  
There 
> might be a time that the library (:::cough:snogging in an obscure 
corner 
> of the library:cough:::) looks pretty attractive to Mr. Potter.  <g>


LOL, I used to work in a college library when I was in school.  Ah, 
the stories we used to hear!  Not only that, Harry could probably use 
a bit more of Hermione's flavor.  He almost went down hard in the tri-
wizard tournament several times, and if it wasn't for a lot of luck 
and the intervention of Croody/Mouch, he would have been up the s***-
creek without a paddle.  The primary reason for this was his failure 
to take the tasks seriously and prepare for them.  With the stakes 
raised after Voldemort's "rebirth" he can't afford to be screwing 
around like that anymore.

> Penny
> (who really is going to someday catalogue all the interactions of 
the 
> Trio with each other so that it can be proven that Harry is funny 
> sometimes, Ron & Hermione really aren't exchanging witty repartee 
> constantly & Hermione is not a bossy wet blanket when she's not 
with Ron)


That'd be a useful document, IMO!

Joshua Dyal