SHIP: Same Ship, Different Day

[Kathleen Kelly MacMillan]

No: HPFGUIDX 11569

It's Captain Kathy, back with more terrible puns on the word "ship"!

Penny said:
>This criticism that gets dished out to the other characters from R/H types
>extends not only to Harry (everything from boring to inconsiderate/selfish)
>and Hermione (bossy
>know-it-all hen-pecking shrew, who nonetheless "should" be paired up with Ron
>(inexplicably)) but also to Sirius and a wide variety of other characters.

Actually, I believe it was Elizabeth who made the hen-pecked comment, though I 
don't recall her ever using the word "shrew". And Elizabeth has made it clear 
that she does not travel on the Good Ship R/H, but rather prefers to take 
refuge on the U-Boat No Ship.  I have been doing an informal survey, as Penny 
suggested, and I have yet to find any Hermione-haters among our crew.

As to the Sirius bit, did I miss something?  (I'm not being sarcastic here, 
I'm honestly wondering.)  I don't recall anyone criticizing Sirius any more 
than Ron, in fact the recent thread has mostly been comparing the two.  (Maybe 
it's comparing him to Ron that you consider the insult? <g>  Just kidding, 
just kidding, I know you don't hate Ron!)  Some people have mentioned that 
they thought he was rash or had a temper, but that's true of Ron too, and we 
love him.  Or were you referring to something else?

Penny wrote:
>I don't think I said "several"
>times, but I do think she tried to do some go-between mediating early >on
>in the fight.  When it became apparent that neither of them were
>listening, she chose to spend her time with Harry.  I still think that
>Hermione spent virtually all her time with Harry during this fight --
>after the initial mediation attempts failed -- I can't imagine when >she
>might have had any chance to be with Ron otherwise given that she was
>with Harry at meal-times, in between classes, during classes, etc.

Though you have a point, I still disagree.  From GoF, UK ed, p. 277: "Hermione 
was furious with the pair of them; she went from one to the other, trying to 
force them to talk to each other. . ."  To me, this indicates that she didn't 
give up.  True, she clearly spent most of her time with Harry, but I maintain 
that that was because Ron monopolized all of Harry's other friends and she 
wasn't about to abandon Harry.  Another point about loyalty:  I agree with you 
Penny (yes, I said agree!) that Hermione is very loyal, and I don't think she 
would give up on Ron anymore than she would Harry.

Cassie wrote:
> Cassie again: But I don't actually think Penny would mind if you did
> come aboard the H/H and announce Harry was boring (which actually I
> think you
> have, over on the PoU list -- it could be considered an H/H haven,
> since all the listmoms are H/H.) It's your business if you find Harry
> boring (although suffering through a series of books about him, from
>his POV, must be tedious for you.)

And Penny added:
>That's correct.  I wouldn't mind -- everyone is entitled to their
>opinion.  Like Cassie, I don't know what appeal the series has for you
>if Harry is such a boring character.  But, that's just my take on it.
><g>

Yes, but then I ducked back into the corner as quickly as possible.  It's not 
that I don't feel welcome on PoU; it's just that I see things from a different 
perspective.  I don't think anyone has ever said that you weren't entitled to 
your opinions.  I think the message was more intended to be "Keep your 
opinions, just don't bash mine."

As to Harry being boring, well, clearly I don't find him completely boring, or 
I wouldn't be an HP nut, now would I?  I merely meant that I find him less 
interesting than Ron or Hermione, and I find his love life even less 
interesting.

And by the way, both the R/H ship rules and the SugarQuill Daily Affirmations 
are intended to be joking, you do realize that right?  Because I have gotten 
the impression that a whole lot of people are not taking them in the spirit in 
which they are intended.

And, by the by, there is no actual ship called the R/H, it's a metaphor, an 
idea.  So you can't really visit it.  Ok, I know everyone knows that, but I 
just needed to point it out, because I am wondering why everyone's getting so 
worked up.

Penny said:
> There's definitely a middle-ground, and that's where I
>fall.  I don't think it qualifies as "Weasley-bashing" to consider the
>theoretical possibility that Ron's jealous insecurity & obvious desire
>for wealth and recognition might make him a very vulnerable target for
>Voldemort & the dark side.  But, anything short of "Ron would *never*
>betray his friend Harry, not under *any* circumstances" seems to be
>labelled as "Weasley-bashing."

OK, this comment drove me up the wall, because I, the Captain of the R/H, have 
participated in several discussions on this topic and even posted a message 
just a few days ago explaining why I once thought this theory a possibility 
but no longer do.  This is a topic that has been discussed at SugarQuill.  So 
I really think it's an unfair statement.

> Cassie said:
> > >I see no H/G in the books (i.e., indications that Harry has feeling
>
> > >for Ginny
> >
> Kathy: And I see no evidence that he likes Hermione, but that doesn't
> stop people  from believing in H/H either.
>
> Cassie: And I see no evidence that Hermione likes Ron, but that
> doesn't stop people from believing in R/H.

Well, I suppose I left myself open for that one!  I was merely trying to point 
out that you can't use "A likes B, we don't know about B's feelings for A" as 
a basis for one ship, and discredit it as the basis for another.  (I might 
also point out that's there's a heck of a lot more canon evidence that could 
be interpreted as Hermione-likes-Ron than there is for Harry-likes-Hermione, 
regardless of how you choose to interpret it.)

Penny wrote:
>I don't necessarily see it as an intentional knowing betrayal at all.
>I just think Ron has the potential to be blinded by his desire for
>wealth & fame to the point of unwittingly falling into a trap set by
>Voldy & his death-eaters.  ::::shrugs::::  It's a *possibility* in my
>mind.

And this is the reason that I once thought this possible too.  Ron does have 
weakness, after all.  (See, I criticized Ron! <g>) But I really think he's a 
stronger character than that.  As for the betrayal-over-Hermione thing, I 
think I posted at length on that thread a few months ago, but I really have 
come to feel that he would value his friendships with both Harry and Hermione 
more than that (even if Hermione didn't like him back ;)

Penny wrote:
>And Ron never reacts (or defends Hermione) because of pent-up anger?
><g>  Sorry, but I agree with Parker -- Harry was clearly defending
>Hermione in this scene.  Ron rushed toward Hermione while Harry was
>still "engaged in battle" so to speak.  "Harry *turned* and saw Ron
>dragging Hermione's hand away from her face ...."  It's not as if >Harry
>just vented his anger and didn't bother to see what happened to >Hermione
>after all was said & done.

I never said that Harry wasn't defending Hermione, I was merely pointing out 
that that wasn't the only thing he was thinking (or even necessarily the first 
thing he was thinking).  And I do agree that many of Ron's reactions are 
pent-up anger, but we have seen a whole lot of times where he goes after 
anyone insulting her, and I don't believe every single one of them is due to 
his repressed ire.  The bottom line is, they're both her friends, regardless 
of any other feelings any of the 3 of them may have, so of course they'll both 
defend her.  It's not necessarily evidence of H/H or R/H or anything else for 
that matter.

Scott wrote:
>I'm not even saying that I think Ron will betray Harry knowingly
>(that is if he does). Perhaps someone that Ron trusts will trick him.
>Or perhaps in a moment of anger he'll let something slip and then try
>to fix.  If he does betray Harry in some way I can see him coming
>back and trying to fix things, or dying heroically trying...

<groans and covers eyes> And that's exactly what I am afraid of, and the 
reason I will probably read each of the next 3 books in one sitting, on pins 
and needles.

Scott again:
>WOW, I actually agree with you here! (goggling at the fact). For all
>practical purposes the death of Harry would also be the end of the
>canon. If Ron were to die then the reader would experience Harry (and
>Hermione and everyone else's pain) at the experience as well as
>feeling their own pain. This could easily make it more difficult.

Can't respond. . . Too choked up. . . See above

B. Bennett wrote:
>You're right,
>Penny - we can all get a little too wrapped up in the process of
>defending our favorite characters.

Hoo boy, ya think? <g>  You know, the people in my 3-D life never believe it 
when I tell them about the conversations on here!  It is actually quite 
comforting to know there are other people as obsessed as I am.  How did people 
ever support obsessions like this before the Internet?

Firoza wrote:
>Just adding my small
>voice to G/H and adding my name to the Good Ship R/H (LOL, what a
>concept- ships/shippers, hilarious!).

Welcome aboard Firoza!  Glad to have you!

Firoza again
>Now just to ramble a bit, I have read PoU, ASA, DD and enjoyed the
>stories, but their pairings quite frankly don't ring true to me
>(despite their awesome and talented writers).

That's exactly how I feel too.  All of them are incredibly good stories and 
very very well-written, but they don't fit my view of the characters.  That's 
not to say there's anything wrong with them at all; everybody has a different 
perspective on the pairings, it seems.

Firoza again:
>So that is why I identify with R/H (bickering adds
>spice to life) and H/G (first crush/love CAN lead to a permanent
>relationship. My personal experience may happen rarely in the real
>world, BUT it is possible nevertheless :-)

LOL!  I have known my husband since 4th grade and we bicker constantly (in 
fact, my absence yesterday was due to some, er, volatile, moments over whose 
turn it was to use the computer last night). So maybe that's why I prefer R/H 
(although I still think my Harry-look-alike-broke-my-heart theory has a lot of 
merit too!).

Firoza again:
>The Good Ship R/H,
>may it float forever :-)

Amen to that!

Signing off, 
Captain Kathy
AKA Elanor Gamgee
Who just posted part 12 of her story by the way (the Yule Ball scene) so click 
here if you want to read it:
www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=162160&chapter=12