SHIP: RE: semi-formal analysis (Naama's logic)

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 11689

Hi --

naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote:

> 1. One thing that bugs me a little is that the H/Hers uphold the
> following:
> a. (with careful nonchallance) Ron does like Hermione.
> b. (triumphantly) There's no evidence that Hermione likes Ron back.
> c. (with gnashing of teeth) There's no evidence of Harry liking
> Hermione/Hermione liking Harry.
> AND
> d. H/H pairing is just as probable as H/R pairing.
>
> Does anybody else see a slight logical problem here?

Well, the above logic is mis-stated as far as *my* logic goes.  Not that
I speak for all the H/H types out there, but here's what I think.

I agree with (a).  However, I don't say it with careful non-chalance.
Hell, there's no getting around it, and it doesn't bother me in the
slightest: Ron likes Hermione.  It's *obvious*; it's not even a remotely
debatable topic.

(b) and (c) -- Here I have some disagreement.  I have never said
(triumphantly or otherwise) that there's *no* evidence that Hermione
likes Ron back.  What I've said (and Kathy agrees) is that Hermione is a
wild card.  The "evidence" that she likes Ron back can be refuted, just
as the "evidence" that she likes Harry can also be refuted.  Hermione's
feelings are subject to more than one interpretation.  I just don't
agree that she likes him back -- I believe the arguments that she likes
Harry are stronger.  But, I don't deny the very existence of evidence &
arguments that she likes Ron.

(c) -- Again, I've never said that there's no evidence that Hermione
likes Harry.  That's completely the opposite of what I have always
said.  FITD -- the linchpin of that theory is that Hermione likes Harry.

As for Harry not liking Hermione -- no need for gnashing of teeth.  I
don't think Harry is going to be in much condition to date or fall in
love with anyone in the canon years, truth be told.  I see H/H as a
post-canon possibility more than anything else.

I just don't see R/H in the canon, because I believe that Hermione likes
Harry and not Ron.  :--)  Which brings me to your next point .....

> If one side of a considered pairing is known to be interested, doesn't
> that tip the odds a bit? I would say that it does make the
> relationship more probable, in that one of the necessary conditions is
> fulfilled.
> Thats on the side of simple logic. But there are further
> psychological considerations. The necessary conditions (R likes Her;
> Her likes R) are not really totally independent of each other. One of
> Penny's pet peeves is that merely because Ron likes Hermione people
> immediately assume they will be together, which implies that
> they ignore what Hermione might be feeling.
> The thing is that, generally speaking, a person is not indifferent to
> the romantic interest somebody has for him/her. How often has it
> happened (especially to women) that they ended falling in love with a
> guy they hadn't even noticed before he showed interest in them? Part
> of human nature, isn't it?

And the H/H'ers have been accused of being too logical, cool-headed and
analytical about romance pairings??!!  <vbg>

I've never formally studied logic so I'll leave aside those arguments.
The psychological arguments that you raise are rather interesting
though.

I must ask -- I just can't refrain from asking -- Why "especially
women"?  Why would women be more easily swayed to fall for someone
they'd never previously had romantic interest in, just because that
person showed an interest in them?  That seems .... well, sexist, to me.

Let's put it another way: how does your above argument play out if the
situation were reversed?  What if it were clear as day that Hermione had
a crush on Ron and Ron's feelings were fairly ambiguous.  Would it still
hold true that Hermione's interest in Ron would be enough to sway him to
stand up & take notice of her as a romantic possibility?  Or, are you
really making the argument that *women* can be persuaded to change their
minds with sufficient wining, dining & roses?

How does this argument affect H/G?  Does Ginny's obvious crush on Harry
mean that they are therefore more likely to happen than not simply
because one party (albeit the female side of the equation) has interest
in him?  One of the conditions has been met there too.

I'm really curious.  This doesn't square at all with my own experiences
(or those of my friends).  Maybe I just had too many broken hearts &
unrequited love affairs.  Sigh.  But, I sure never found it to be true
that one could sway a friend to romance when it just wasn't there for
the other person.  And, conversely, I turned away some guys who were
quite smitten with me, but I could tell after a date or two that it just
wasn't going to work.  They didn't have any luck in swaying me.  So
..... in my experience, romance has only worked out when both parties
had at least a latent romantic/physical interest in the other person.

So, your theory is completely flawed in my personal experience.  And I
don't know anyone else that would fall within your theory ..... so, can
you elaborate?  I'm curious.

Penny



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