SHIP: RE: Questions for R/Hers...

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 12113

Hi --

Ebony -- you know I can't ever resist jumping into a shipper
discussion!  No matter how much carpal tunnel might be troubling me ....
<g>

bbennett at joymail.com wrote:

> I think there's been some misinterpretation as to what HGTG means. I
> know I'm relatively new to HP4GU, but I've never thought HGTG was
> offered to support the idea that Ron deserves Hermione, but as a
> theory to explain why some people think Harry will end up with
> Hermione.

I think HGTG was originally put forth as a reason why R/H types dislike
the notion of H/H.  They argued that it wouldn't be "right" for the hero
to get the girl (too cliche).  I think what Ebony is asking is: Doesn't
HGTG work only if the hero wants the girl in the first place (:::winces
at "girl" terminology too:::)?

> Suggesting HGTG as a reason for the defense of H/H is just a theory,
> but it can be reasonably analyzed and debated.

Not sure if I understood the above correctly, but H/H types *never* use
HGTG as a *defense* to H/H.  What you see is R/H shippers arguing that
H/H can't happen because HGTG is too cliche.  At least, that's my take
on it.

Not speaking for everyone, but most H/H'ers are as offended/disturbed by
HGTG as the R/H types.  We don't believe Hermione is a prize to be won
(to quote Eb).  Her feelings count in the equation equally with the
feelings of Ron and Harry to the H/H proponent.  But, the H/H types are
equally disturbed by the R/H position that Ron deserves the girl because
he needs something that Harry doesn't have.

Rina wrote:

> I don't like HGTG because I don't think the hero wants the girl, and the
> girl doesn't want the hero, and for the love of all that is holy, why isn't
> here a better way of phrasing this?  Besides, all of this discussion
> isn't portraying Hermione in a very positive light. We're all pretty much
> disregarding who she likes in all this "Hero gets the girl, damn it!" and
> "Ron doesn't have anything, so give HIM the girl, damn it!" talk.
>
That's what I think too, Rina.  But, you don't see the H/H types arguing
either side.  We argue that Hermione's feelings are just as important as
Ron or Harry's feelings.  Where we disagree with the R/H types is that
we interpret Hermione as having feelings for Harry (hence, HGTG and
Sidekick gets the Girl as a consolation prize becomes doubly offensive
to most of us).  The H/H types are willing to say that there's room for
interpretation and disagreement.  Hermione's feelings are not clear at
all.  They are ambiguous enough at this point to leave either ship
plenty of room to maneuver.

> I personally can't wait until we see some more textual evidence as to who
> Hermione actually likes. I read what has happened so far as she likes Ron
> and is getting frusterated with his thick-headedness, but she hasn't come
> out and said anything in either direction.
>
No, she definitely has not been at all clear.

> B wrote: I'm not sure what criteria was set forth, and although I know
> FITD is "Farmer In the Dell" (you all are so good with the acronyms),
> I don't know what it means.

FITD: Ron likes Hermione; Hermione likes Harry; and Harry likes either
no one or someone outside the Trio.

Amy Z wrote:

> No--the thing that would be most intolerable to Ron would be if Harry
> *wasn't* particularly interested in Hermione but Hermione was
> interested in Harry, and H/H ended up together (again, whether short-
> or long-term, it doesn't really matter--two months, even two weeks,
> can be an eternity to a friendship).
>
Would it be equally galling in your mind if Hermione was interested in
Harry but H/H didn't end up together at all in canon?  It would in my
mind.  It might even be *worse* for Ron.  Think about this scenario: Ron
asks Hermione out or otherwise makes his feelings clear.  Hermione
gently says, "I'm sorry but I'm just not interested in you in that
way."  [2 scenarios from here: (A) She goes on to tell Ron directly that
she has feelings for Harry or (B) Ron learns from other source(s) that
Hermione has her heart set on Harry.]  Now, Harry lets Hermione down in
the same way that she let Ron down.  He could do this for any number of
reasons: (A) he truly *isn't* interested in her, (B) he thinks this is
the best thing to do to try & keep the Trio's friendship intact (or at
least his friendship with Ron); or (C) he's just so busy with fighting
Voldy that he can't remotely focus on romantic possibilities.  Despite
Harry's rejection, Hermione doesn't try & backtrack & date Ron (i.e.,
she meant what she said: I'm not interested in dating you, Ron).

So, in that case, Ron would have the double insult that Hermione
wouldn't agree to date him and Harry has rejected his love interest and
hurt her.  That could be alot worse in my mind.

> It is so galling when you are jealous of someone and he doesn't even *want* the things that you
> covet.
>
Exactly!  See above -- what if Harry not only didn't want something that
Ron coveted but also rejected the very thing Ron wanted.

> So I'm thinking that for Ron, what would be worse than Harry falling
> in love with Hermione, asking her out, and succeeding, would be Harry
> being indifferent to Hermione, but her asking him out and succeeding.
> That's what's so misery-inducing about HGTG for me.  And if Harry and
> Hermione did get together, this is how it would likely be, IMO,
> because IMO Harry has zero romantic interest in Hermione right now.
>
That's admittedly a possibility I really hadn't considered.  I really
believe heartily in FITD (and under that theory, Harry would likely
reject Hermione in canon).  It's certainly possible though that he might
decide to give it a whirl if she took the initiative.  But, I think
Harry knows Ron's feelings and would be uncomfortable going that route
unless he developed a strong interest in Hermione himself.  I see H/H as
a post-canon possibility ... something that builds on Hermione's
long-standing interest in him and that occurs when Harry has defeated
Voldy & moved on with his life.  They would both be more mature.

If R/H occurs in canon, I don't see it lasting.  But then, I see
absolutely no reason why James Carville & Mary Matalin have any kind of
marriage at all -- I'm completely unable to fathom *how* they could put
aside such deep disagreements & nurture their marriage when they're
"off-stage."  But, to each his own ...

Like Ebony -- I love your posts Amy!  Keep 'em coming!  You have great
insights -- I've been too busy to reply to some of the ones that I
particularly enjoyed but I have always enjoyed your thoughts.

Penny


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