[HPforGrownups] Re: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning)

[mlleelizabeth at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 10065

Hi Ebony and All,

In a message dated 1/21/2001 2:52:48 PM EST, ebonyink at hotmail.com writes:

<< Hi Elizabeth (who has a nice name... ;) and all:>>
 
 Thanks!  You have some lovely names yourself.

  <Just a lighthearted joke.  But as I've told H/H friends, I'm really very 
 stubborn about romance subplots.  Once I make up my mind in the middle of a  
novel or a series about my opinion, there's no changing it.  So I'll enjoy 
 the books, of course, but just as CoS is the book in the series I re-read 
 the least, passages that make me grit my teeth will be duly skimmed over.>

Are you perhaps a Taurus? <g>
 
 <Some may say that's wrong.  Oh, well... that's just the way I am.>

How can you be wrong?  You bought the books (or borrowed them from the 
library or somehow acquired them).  You can read them any way you'd like, or 
even not read them.  If you've bought them, you can use them as coasters if 
that's what you think they're best for! :)

 < I really don't expect to see much romance for romance's sake in the canon. 
 
 If it's there, it like everything else will tie into the main plot.  JMO.>

I agree.  The first four books have certainly not been romance novels.
 
  <Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that!  I'm no censor, but I just think that 
suicide 
 fics are in extremely poor taste.  Again, JMO.>

Thank you, and I agree that most of the suicide fics are in poor taste (all 
of them I've seen so far if you mean HP suicide fics).  I tend to avoid them, 
just as I tend to avoid the Hermione-is-raped-and-becomes-pregnant fics.  
Now, Pregnant!Draco fics are a whole 'nother matter! ;)  Those are just to 
bizarrely funny to miss.
 
  

Harry struggling for his place in the world?  hmmmmm.  I'm not sure I agree 
that's what's going on.  IMO Harry believes his place in the world is to 
fight Voldy.
 
 <The problems with killing off your viewpoint narrator in modern lit are 
 manifold.  It takes a master creative writing teacher like Orson Scott Card 
 or Nancy Kress to explain this fully.  As a teen, I had a horrible habit of 
 killing off characters because I didn't know what to do with them (much like 
 Diana did in the Anne of Green Gables Story Club).  It's much more 
 indicative of a subtle genius, and much more beneficial to humankind's 
 collective canon of literature, to avoid killing off the character.  The 
 first few times around (as in archetypal myths) it's effective.  At this 
 point in time, it's usually tragicomic at best.>

I'd probably agree with you if I didn't think Ms. Rowling was trying for a 
more classical style, and if she didn't keep hinting that she plans to kill 
him off, both in the books and in interviews.
 
 <Again, perhaps JKR is writing in the tradition of Shakespeare et. al.>

I do think she's trying to do so.

   <Of course it's not.  However--read Parker's "Friend Enough?"  Can you 
 imagine canon Ron doing something like that *if* that was the case?>

I'll put it on my TBR list.
  
<So you'd rather have Ron henpecked? >

No!

<  (I'm serious... I'm now laughing so hard  that tears are falling from my 
eyes!)  I'm assuming a lot here, but I take  it you don't like Hermione too 
much... why, then, should Ron have to suffer  with her?>

I must admit I'm laughing with you, but I don't think Ron should have to 
suffer with her either.  I don't believe I've ever presented a case for the 
R/H ship, nor do I intend to.  You are correct to assume that I don't 
particularly like Hermione, although I did feel that Ms. Rowling was 
attempting to create a more likeable version of her in GoF.   It didn't work 
for me as well as it seems to have for others.  I almost stopped reading GoF 
during the Ron/Harry fight section because it was so horribly depressing for 
me.
 
 < Shotgun wedding?  When's the baby due?  (Giggling again.)  I know that a 
lot 
 of poor quality teenage fics have Hermione pregnant, but (to quote Hermione 
 herself) *honestly*.>

No, no, if Hermione gets pregnant it will be with Snape, of course! <g>

Sorry... I didn't really know any other good shorthand term for a forced 
wedding, but the H/H ship has that feel to me, as I have never found any 
evidence that an H/H ship is something Harry would want.
 
< But--and this is something that the more  prominent H/H writers had to 
bring me around to--Harry enjoys spending time  with the Weasleys.  Private 
and introspective though he might be, do you  really think the Boy Who Lived 
wants to live his life as a Lone Ranger?>

Sure, as long as he can still spend time with his friends when he wants to.
 
< Why is it that whenever I compliment Hermione, it's seen to be at Ron's 
 expense?>

In this specific case, the statement was, "Hermione is the brains of the 
operation," which seemed to suggest (to me at least) that Ron wasn't adding 
anything intelligent to the mix.  If I misunderstood what you were saying, I 
apologize.  I contend that Ron is actually the strategist of the group, which 
would require intelligence of him.
  
 I<'m also a huge advocate of a balanced Friendship between the Three.  Most 
 H/Hers are.  I've heard the other side argue either that Harry and Hermione 
 have a sibling relationship,>

I must have somehow missed that argument.  I don't believe I can agree with 
it.  Seems like Ron and Harry have more of a sibling relationship to me.  The 
H/H relationship seems more distant than siblinghood to me.

<Au contraire.  (Hope I spelled that right--my foreign language is Spanish, 
not French.)  Hermione's feelings on everything from house-elves to pets 
have played an integral part in the plot up until now.>

Yes, they have, but they are Hermione's feelings as experienced by Harry 
which probably means that some of her feelings don't show up at all and 
others are filtered through Harry's own experience.

 <So if Ron can't have her, Harry can't either, right?  ;-)>

<g> Nope, more like Ron can't have her and Harry's not interested so why not 
go find someone who is interested in her?

< perhaps all three might look elsewhere if it wasn't for three things:  1) 
 Impending war speeds along romance... that's a proven fact.  2)  I'm an HP 
 Small World advocate... and successful modern marriages are made up of 
 people with some common interests.  3) It's fun to matchmake!>

I'm with you up til #3.  Matchmaking may be fun for the Matchmakers, but it's 
not necessarily fun for the Matchmakees.
 
  <Hee hee!  Yeah, that must be it.  I'm H/H because a full supply of oxygen 
 hasn't reached my brain since July 8, 2000.  And I'll be "Waiting to Exhale" 
 until 2002 or whenever Jo decides to release book 5.>

I'll send you some gillyweed and you can hang out underwater 'til then!  
 
  <It sure doesn't!  I agree with you there.  But do you really think that 
 Harry will just shrug off her feelings and say, "Tough cookies... I have a 
 world to save?"  *That* would really be Hamlet-esque.  :-) >

He might.  He also might say, "I'm sorry Hermione, I just don't feel that way 
about you.  I hope we can still be friends."
 
  <That's why no adult H/Her with good sense puts them together at the 
 immediate conclusion of the war.  I agree with the PTSD idea completely... 
 Jim Ferer AKA Dadgrid converted me to this way of thinking... I buy it, I 
 buy it!  In my own fic (this is not a spoiler), Harry disappears for three 
 years the second Voldemort is defeated, and rumor has it that he is dead.>

Your fic is on my TBR list as well.  So does Harry receive treatment during 
those years?  Is he in Neil's FFA clinic?  

I'm combining responses here.  Carole asks:

<You think Harry has PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)? Harry hasn't
shown any symptoms of this as of yet...>

Symptoms of PTSD include depression, anxiety attacks, flashbacks and memory 
loss/blackouts.  I think Ms. Rowling has shown us evidence of at least 3 of 
those symptoms (depression, anxiety attacks and flashbacks).  I'm not sure 
whether or not I've seen Harry in a fugue state so far.  Sometimes the 
blackouts (and for that matter, the flashbacks) happen when specific 
events/sights/sounds trigger them, so it's possible Harry hasn't been 
triggered yet.  I also believe Ms. Rowling uses chocolate as wizard Prozac.
 
 <However, just as Harry could fight off the dreadful Imperius curse at the  
tender age of 14 (a curse that destroyed the lives of fully matured and  
capable wizards), I don't think he'll live the remainder of his life alone.>

Why not?  It's not a bad thing.  Some people choose not to marry.
  
< If my shipmates and I were unequivocally right, there would be nothing to 
 debate.  I also accept Rowling's scenario.  But as in the case of LMA, I 
 don't have to like it.  Odd though my sentiment may seem, it is my belief 
 and one that I'm free to keep.  :-) >

I completely agree.  You are free to enjoy the books in whatever way you want 
once you've purchased them.  
 
< Hope I didn't sound too belligerent.  Kathy can tell you I have nothing but 
 genuine caring and concern for my friends who are suffering from R/H 
 Disorder!  (Just kidding, Ron fans... sheathe those claws!  Lower those 
 pistols!  And by all means--put down those darn pitchforks!  LOL!)>

I don't think you sounded belligerent at all.  Funny, maybe, but not 
belligerent.  Hope you feel the same towards no-shippers as well!
 
 All the best,
  Ebony
  >>

To you as well!

Love & Light,
*Elizabeth
90% obsessed and proud of it!
~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~