Ron/Sirius parallels

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 11332

Hi --

Kimberly wrote:

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer <pennylin at s...>

> wrote:
> > Not sure where I fit as I like both Ron and Sirius (to different
> degrees & for different reasons) but ...
> >
> I have to ask, after reading your post - is one of those degrees "not
> much at all"? ;)

What -- just because I think Sirius is more closely paralleled by
Hermione, I'm now accused of not liking Ron?  I sincerely regarded this
post as more of arguing Hermione/Sirius parallels, rather than
detracting from Ron as a person.  I *do* like Ron!  Really!

> I think though that this leaves out his personality during his teen
> years, when the comparison can best be made.  Then he *was* rather
> rash and impulsive, and easily angered.  If not, his decision to send
> Snape off to face a full-on werewolf was far more cold and cruel, and
> I don't see evidence of that tendency in him in any of the books so
> far.

We still don't know the full story on the werewolf prank pulled by
Sirius, and so I reserve judgment against Sirius in that matter until
the story is more fully fleshed out.  I am in no way a Snape fan though,
so that colors my perception.  I much more readily give the benefit of
the doubt to Sirius (and Dumbledore -- who knew the whole story & did
not expell Sirius).  I distrust Snape, so I'm disinclined to give any
credence to his version of events.

> In PoA he was in attack/revenge/protection mode, which was quite
> anger-oriented,

I agree with Monika & Carole that his actions appear to be less
motivated by *anger* as they are by PTSD, stress, etc.

> > He's much more the stable, wise, self-sacrificing, protective
> godfather.
>
> I agree he's wise and self-sacrificing, and definitely he's
> protective, but as for stable, to be fair, in GoF he's not physically
> present very much.

By stable, I meant he's *there* for Harry -- whether it's in person or
by owl-post.

> > So .... all in all, I'm not so sure we can definitely ascribe a hot
> temper to Sirius.
>
> You have to take into account the fact that his first instinct, as a
> kid in the MWPP days, as a young adult when James and Lily died, and
> in the events of PoA, was to seek vengeance.

As a teenager in the MWPP days -- we don't know yet *what* motivated him
to play that prank.  I'm not sure it's fair to say it was vengeance when
we really don't know much about it other than it occurred & that
Dumbledore knew about it (chose not to take action) and that Snape is
still incredibly bitter about it.

As a young adult when James & Lily died - he might not have been seeking
vengeance per se as much as he hoped to trap Peter, turn him into the
authorities & clear his own name.  He was outwitted by Peter -- and as
suggested by others yesterday, I would wager this was due to his stress
level & shock.  He did go looking for Peter, but who's to say his intent
all along wasn't simply to bind him up & turn him into the authorities
so that his own name could be cleared?

As for PoA -- I subscribe to the PTSD theory.  I'm not sure we're seeing
Sirius' true personality there.

> I said: I'm one of the few who paralleled Hermione to Sirius back when
> we were trying to compare the Trio to the Marauders.  Most people
> paired her up with Lupin because of intellect, although I maintain
> that since McGonagall said James & Sirius were the brightest students
> of their year, Lupin must be slightly less intellectual (if relying on
> grades alone
> anyway).
>
> Kimberly said: But there's a difference between bright and
> intellectual.  From my observation Remus is a man of thought, Sirius a
> man of action,
> regardless of their relative IQs or grades.  That's not to say Sirius
> isn't intellectual and Remus doesn't take action, but their general
> tendencies seem to run that way.  Plus Remus missed a couple of days
> of classes every month due to err.... non-feminine pms :), which was
> bound to affect his grades.  Especially if any of the teachers were
> like Snape, or even McGonagall.

I agree -- that's why I added the qualifier re: if relying on grades
alone.  But, I don't see Hermione as being strictly the intellectual
type.  She puts her smarts to good use -- she uses practical application
all the time.  She does reflexively turn to books, and I honestly can't
see Sirius being that type.  But, she *also* thinks on her feet & has
natural "brightness" -- traits I do ascribe to Sirius.

> Hermione is loyal in what I deem a more traditional way than Ron.
> She behaved poorly in the PoA Crookshanks fight incident, but she was
> under alot of stress.  And, her actions that > precipitated that fight
> were motivated by loyalty/friendship/concern for Harry's welfare.
>
> I assume you're meaning the firebolt fight and not the Scabbers fight
> in that last sentence?

Yes.

> As far as I can tell her actions that precipitated the Scabbers fight
> were carelessness, a lack of responsibility for her pet and a
> disregard for the feelings of her friend.  She wasn't stressed at the
> beginning of the term, and that's when she started those habits with
> Crookshanks.

She was definitely over-indulgent with Crookshanks and careless to
assume that he could roam freely without menacing Ron's pet.

> Kimberly said:  I think it's natural for friends to fight, and it's
> better to get hard feelings out in the open than to let them fester
> (and I believe this  from the perspective of someone who tends to
> avoid confrontation  instead, and usually pays for it with
> sleeplessness, tenseness, and once even hives).  I think all of their
> individual friendships have benefitted from the various fights they've
> had over the years - they have been able to grow past them.

I couldn't agree more!  I had thought it was very weird that Harry and
Ron had never had a fight up until GoF.  I was merely expressing my
feeling that Ron was more initially at fault than Harry (although Harry
certainly did his part to prolong the fight).

> I agree that she is loyal, but I think they are both very loyal, and
> probably equally as loyal in different ways.  She risks breaking
> rules and even being expelled - the two things that terrify her most -
>
> and Ron risks his life, both to help and protect their friends.

This is very well-worded -- I like it.

My main problem with Ron in the fight in GoF is this: I think Hermione
immediately saw from the expression on Harry's face that he hadn't
entered his name.  I can't help wondering *what* Ron was thinking -- it
strikes me that he just wasn't all that perceptive.  He let his own
jealousy swamp his initial perceptions.  This much is reasonably
understandable in my mind.  But, it seems to me that he couldn't then
get past his stubborness to accept what Hermione must have told him at
least once (that Harry hadn't entered himself in the Tournament & was
very upset/frightened).  If he'd made some moves toward reconciliation
early on, the fight could have ended.  Instead, he turned a deaf ear to
Hermione and possibly his own instincts.  I didn't like this aspect of
Ron at all -- it made me very nervous that he could have a similar
reaction in a situation when the stakes might be indeed even higher.
Just my opinion though!  :--)

Penny


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