Slytherins, Sirius vs Snape (gosh, this is long!!)

[pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it]

No: HPFGUIDX 22516

rainy_lilac wrote:
<I do like the idea of a surprise coming up, some kind of evidence 
<that might suggest that the cunning Slytherins, though prone to Dark 
<Ways, do not HAVE to go in that direction, and that there might be a 
<notable Slytherin who will rise above it all. (Well, Snape for 
<sure...)

It is never stated in any of the books that *every* Slytherin goes 
bad. Hagrid says in PS:"There's not a single witch or wizard who went 
bad who wasn't in Slytherin" That means: All bad witches/wizards have 
been in Slytherin, but not EVERY witch/wizard that was in Slytherin 
is automatically bad.


Maribel wrote:
<clip>
<Of course, after 12 years of psiquic and emotional torture, Sirius 
<cannot be considered totally *normal* in the magic sense. However, 
<he scaped from Azakaban. That puts him in a very different level. He 
<cannot be considered as *normal* in the magic standards.
<He has an incredible soul, and also believe -please, correct me if 
<I'm wrong- he is the only one who has escaped from Azkaban by his 
<own. Crouch jr was substituted by his mother and helped by his 
<father.
<Sirius survived the Dementors for 12 years without losing his mind, 
<he conserved his magical powers, found strength to scape and found 
<Harry. His soul still recognizes what is good and evil.
<Of course, he'll never be the same person he used to be before 
<prison, but we can be sure that time and contact with *good" people <
(Dumbledore, Lupin, Harry, etc) and the fight against evil will help 
<him, because he'll become stronger.

1) I'm no psychologist by formation and 2) it would clearly be OT to 
define "normality" in this context. But I think it is obvious that 12 
years of dementor-guarded imprisonment leave their traces. Now I have 
to quote kiononia's post which I found extremely clever and which 
made me regret I didn't post my own thoughts on the subject earlier, 
because they are very simlar:

Koinonia wrote:
<clip>
<He is the guy with the looks, the nice sense of humor, the brains, 
<someone Harry now trusts.  On the other hand we have Snape, who 
<seems to be just the opposite of Sirius with the exception of brain 
<power.  You are suppose to hate Snape.  JKR has done her best to 
<make sure we do.  She is setting us up for something much later down 
<the line. This book is also about *trusting* and I can see where 
<Harry will trust those who are not on the good side.  It's possible 
<Sirius might be one of those people.
<I do believe Sirius has a cruel side.


YES!!! Even if I wouldn't have called it a "cruel side", but Sirius 
surely has a certain inclination towards violence and he indulges it 
because he's always got away with it. You know where I distinctly 
felt that? When he tells Harry in the aftermath that he would have 
suggested the (forgive me, I don't have the book with me) 
Conjunctivitis Curse or whatever it is called, against the Hungarian 
Horntail. He doesn't think of the elegant soltuion (chapeau to Barty 
jr/Moody), but of the violent one. There is definitely a very 
uncontrolled, animal-instinctive side to Sirius that IMHO has nothing 
to do with his Azkaban years. It's in him and it makes him dangerous, 
because he's a true Gryffindor: Lots of courage but also a ceratin 
lack of control.


still koinonia:
<I don't think we can truly judge the actions of Snape or Sirius in 
<POA until we know the full story of why they hate each other so 
<much. I just get tired of people excusing Sirius behavior because he 
<was young, or because he was a prisoner, or because it was all 
<Snape's fault and so on......he was wrong on some things.  
<I don't like the idea that we can't hold Sirius responsible for his 
<actions because he was a prisoner.  I don't believe it was PTSD that 
<made Sirius act the way he did while inside Hogwarts.  This is just 
<the way he does things. I am not saying that he didn't suffer while 
<at Azkaban or afterwards.  Of course he did.  What I object to is 
<making excuses for people when they do wrong  
<I don't excuse Snape for his rudeness or cruelty.  I do believe that 
<there is so much more to the man and why he is as he is.  What 
<surprises me is that people are willing to excuse the actions of so 
<many in the book but are not even willing to consider that Snape 
<might have had a very nasty and unpleasant life himself.  Not that 
<it would make his actions acceptable but it would help us to 
<understand him more.
<For those who think Snape is a bully....he is.  For those who think 
<it is weakness to pick on those younger and weaker than you....it 
<is.  But the guy isn't all bad.  He is a very brave man.  Spying on 
<Voldemort is almost a certain death sentence. He is willing to put 
<his life on the line in some way even now.  He is strong in many 
<ways.He better be.
<As for Sirius, I have a feeling he was a bully while at school 
<also. Not in the way Snape is but in his own way.  A cocky, can't do 
<no wrong, popular bully. For some reason I still like him!


Honestly, at the age of 35-40, nobody, neither Snape nor Sirius, can 
always justify themselves with the nasty childhood they had. IMO that 
makes one a rather immature person. Sirius and Snape both have their 
flaws, but Snape has the advantage of being more controlled. Just 
putting in a word for Severus: He is *always* second, even when he is 
convinced he's right (like at the end of PoA, only Dumbledore, Harry, 
Hermione and we all know he isn't). That must be a terrible feeling: 
He can do anything- be a converted DE, save Harry's life in PS, save 
Harry's life in PoA, there's always the good-looking (Sirius) or the 
famous (Harry) guy who will get the better of him. You'd have to be a 
saint if you didn't try to carry it out on *somebody*- only that 
bullying students is certainly a *very* poor solution.


Susanna