SHIPPING of Love and War

[Scott]

No: HPFGUIDX 20977

Hmmm...Great comments on this subject. I'm not really sure where to 
start. So I'll begin with...

Emma wrote:  
 Allison replied:
"True, Ron can be a bit needy.  But Ron is a teenage boy.  As a     
teenage girl, I'm going to offer my expert opinion that ALL teenage  
boys are needy.  He may not grow out of it completely, but it should 
lessen with time.  All teenagers are somewhat insecure, and this 
tends to lead to neediness.  I think Ron will get better as he gets  
older."

--I basically agree. As a teenage boy I'm going to offer the "expert" 
opinion that not *all of us* are *that* needy. I'm certainly needy to 
a certain extent, but I'm not that much like Ron, far more Harry or 
Hermione. 

The thing is that Harry and Hermione are needy too. Their neediness 
does not come across in the same way, but it's still there. Ron is 
obviously insecure, but not much less so than Harry or Hermione. (I'm 
not going to go into a long dissertation on the fact, but Harry has 
issues with trust and Hermione's studying is IMHO a sign of 
insecurity. At least I think my own studying habits often reflect as 
such.) I agree that all teenagers are to a certain extent insecure. 
At this age we don't even know *who* we really are. Insecurity, at 
least sometimes, is a given.

Emma wrote:
"I have issues with Ron.  When we were reading Harry Potter together, 
my psycho ex always identified with Ron, the needy personality type.  
He never understood why Hermione wasn't more into him, why she wasn't 
more attentive to him.  And now, in retrospect, I see a lot of my 
ex's neediness in Ron.  He has some bluster, but really no deeply-
ingrained self-confidence to carry him through the rough spots.  He's 
defined by his family more than by his own actions.  And he can't 
quite seem to go it alone, at least not to me.  This is what makes me 
really dread to see Hermione and Ron end up together.  Ron is clingy, 
yet oblivious.  I think he would wear down Hermione, much like my ex 
wore me down over the years.  And I want to see our fiesty Hermione 
do better for herself than get involved in a relationship with an 
emotionally needy individual."  

--We all agree Ron's needy (see above), but what does he need? 
Hermione may well romantically love Ron in the future, but she is a 
very independent person. IMO Ron could never be her whole life, a 
part of it yes, but not the centre of her universe. They both need 
validation, but I'm not sure Hermione could give Ron what he needs, 
at least what I think he will need based on his needs at *this* point 
in his life. I also don't see Ron as the type to support Hermione in 
her accomplishments (of which she is bound to have many) without ever 
feeling overshadowed by them.

If a Ron/Hermione marriage were to happen I see it being somewhat 
like Ebony's TiP (wonderful story by the way!). However in my 
universe, post-canon R/H date, maybe even get engaged, and then 
realise that their fights aren't funny, and that while they made 
good friends they could never be husband and wife. (That of course is 
just IMHO!) 

Amy wrote:
"You are right on about the date-and-see-if-you're-suited approach, 
but I just want to defend Ginny defenders here by pointing out that 
Ginny's crush may have started from afar, but she and Harry aren't 
afar any more.  They really know each other, if not very well, then 
way better than Harry and Cho do.  Common room time, visits to the 
Burrow, meals . . . we see enough of these to know Harry and Ginny 
have had some actual conversations, whereas we've seen no 
interactions between Cho and Harry whatsoever besides one Quidditch 
match and one picking up of a quill."

--I've said before that I dislike Ginny, but much more so because I 
don't feel like we know her than because what we *do* know of her I 
don't like. (Does that make sense?) I think that it's possible that 
one day post-canon Harry and Ginny could be involved. In canon I tend 
to lean toward no-ship-Harry. (Of course Fanon "fashion conscious" 
Ginny seems to belong with sexy reformed Draco in leather pants, but 
I digress...) :-)

Ebony wrote later:
"QUESTION:  What is the basis of Ron and Hermione's friendship?"

Amy extended this:
"What is the basis of Ron and Harry's? I'm not trying to be 
difficult. I just don't see how we see more of the one than the other.
As I said earlier, the friendship among R, H, and H is something we 
all accept--and sure enough, here's someone to say "I don't!" <g>  (I 
know that isn't exactly what you're saying, Ebony.)I agree that 
friendship is based largely on common interests. It's also based on 
meshing (not necessarily similar) personalities."

--I don't think we do. Some people of course may argue the other 
point though. While I think that similar and common interests can 
certainly build a relationship/friendship I don't think they are the 
basis of it. Being friends has to do with connecting with other 
people. One way to do that is with common interests, but once a 
person becomes friends with someone their experiences together are 
far more "binding" than their common interests. Though those 
experiences are likely to be about shared interest. Argh! I'm not 
sure *what* I'm trying to say.

Amy wrote:
"When you go to school together and live together and spend all your 
time with the same group of people, you have plenty to talk about 
without sharing any outside interests at all, as long as you have the 
right personalities for talking to each other about all those shared 
experiences."

--This is what I was trying to say in the above paragraph, only less 
eloquently. Common interest can be a basis for a friendship, but that 
alone can't sustain it. Personality is important, too.

Amy again:
"How =does= JKR make it so obvious to me that these three are such 
good friends?"

--I'm not really sure, but she does it effectively. We know they are 
friends because we see them as friends and we understand their 
friendship on some level? Again, I'm not really sure.

Ebony wrote:
"What's that quote from Stephen King?  "The best friends I ever had, 
I had at twelve years old?"  After the latency period ends, 
everything gets complicated... which is perhaps why JKR has put off 
letting the characters hit puberty for so long."

--Isn't this the truth! I could share some stories, but I 
won't...I'm getting OT as it is. :-) I just hope this doesn't happen 
to Harry and Ron and Hermione. I want to believe Amy that they can 
still be friends... 

Scott
Now humming "Can We Still Be Friends"