SHIP: Ron & the Yule Ball

[star_ling at wiccanet.every1.net]

No: HPFGUIDX 13632

Oh dear, I fear that I've opened a can of worms here but oh well.  I 
know that everyone disagrees with me, that's why I started this 
simply to see if one other person thought along similar lines, I 
guess not, oh well I'm used to being the odd ball.  One reason why I 
think that we differ so much is that I'm bot an adult, yes I know 
there are otehr teenagers on here but for the most part it's adults.  
I'm only 15 (16 in May YAY!) so I can see other sides to what is 
happening to the characters not to mention I've been in wierd 
relationships enables me be different and see things as most don't.  
Sense I'm about the same age as the characters and have been 
in `weird relationships' and all my good friends are guys (and they 
always want me to do their work, geeeeeze I am a lot like Hermione, I 
even have bushy brown hair) so my views are tainted.  You've all been 
saying things along the line of  `Ron is a 14 year old boys he 
doesn't know he has feelings for Hermione, he hasn't figured it out 
yet' well I suppose sense I view Ron as being emotionally imature
(less then Hermione and Harry) that could be but I don't really see 
that sense I have many 14 year old guy friends who know exactly 
what's going on, they know who they like and some even have steady 
girls friends, however Jo is the writer and as she is an adult and 
didn't grow up in the atmoshpere I do where I have friends not much 
older then me already engaged and I fact I have a 17 year old friend 
who is already married so she wont write the characters in that sorta 
atmosphere, besides I don't know how coomon that is, maybe it's just 
this town that's weird.  I will always persieve the wierd and and 
take different opinions, I'll try to explain them to you but I don't 
expect you to agree.  Even if Ron does like Hermione only some of the 
evidence that has been offered in support of this could convience me 
so, there will always be certain `scenes' that I will percieve 
differently.  I think that in realness Ron would be more in tune with 
his feelings judging by the people around me but I know `we' are 
thought of as younger minded then what we are and I'm sure the same 
goes with how Jo views `us' therefor that is how it's written in her 
books.  Jo might be leading to Ron liking Hermione but I'm looking at 
it not as a story written by an adult but how I would see most things 
if they were really happening around me, I suppose if it was real 
though and I was there I'd be able to tell a lot easier by 
expressions and such and I'd be seeing it through my eyes and not 
Harry's.  Well I've got to go before the teacher catches me on the 
internet, I'll talk more on this subject later, I don't expect anyone 
to agree, in fact I know that you all don't agree and will argue 
against me, these are my views and I'll explain them they aren't 
meant to be a counter argument trying to be persesive but hey, I like 
debates, so respond away, I'll be happy to see the response.     

~Star~

Smile Everyone!!!! And Be Happy 





--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer <pennylin at s...> 
wrote:
> Hi --
> 
> Continue to read R/H shippers.  Believe it or not, I'm largely on 
your
> side on this one.  <g>
> 
> Star wrote:
> 
> > Ron thought of Hermione as a last resort, if he liked her why 
didn't
> > he ask her before hand, he could have 'pretended' he wanted to go 
as
> > friends but no, he didn't even think of her till it was too late.
> 
> Well, he's 14 yrs old, and I don't think he knew on any conscious 
level
> that he had feelings for Hermione.  He's just sort of bumbling along
> (like Harry) into the whole "girls are more than just the opposite 
sex"
> idea.  I don't think that, at the end of GoF, Ron even yet really 
knows
> what's going on as far as his feelings go.  He was astonished that 
she
> was going with someone else, but I think this is more to do with his
> perception that she was just "good old Hermione" who wasn't really a
> "girl" in his mind until it was becoming clear that he was going to 
have
> trouble getting a date at the 11th hour.
> 
> Kathy said:
> 
> > JKR herself has said that Ron doesn't know what's going on yet.  
I think
> > it's pretty clear he just hasn't admitted his feelings, even to 
himself, yet.
> >
> I agree with Kathy on that one!  I'm *not*, however, expressing any
> agreement with the position that JKR has said that it *will* be R/H 
or
> any of that nonsense.  Her statement was "Yes, there's something 
going
> on between them, Ron just doesn't know it yet."  I still say that 
it's
> arguable that the "something going on" is one-sided.  I think JKR's
> statement was sufficiently ambiguous. But, it's clear that Ron just
> hasn't admitted his own feelings.  We're in agreement on that much
> anyway.
> 
> > Also, Ron didn't seem mad that she was going with some one else 
before
> > the dance at all, if it would have been just another student I 
don't
> > think ROn would have gotten mad.
> 
> I agree with Kathy that his repeated questioning of her was not just
> casual curiosity.
> 
> > I think Ron got mad b/c he was jealous not of not going with 
Hermione
> > but b/c Hermione got to go with his 'hero'.  Ron couldn't believe 
that
> > Hermion went with Krum and she wouldn't even tell him, this is 
the guy
> > he wanted an autograph from and here his friend his going to the 
dance
> > with Krum and didn't even tell him.  I see Ron's anger and 
jealousy
> > coming not from like for Hermione but his like (hero type 
peoples) of
> > Krum.
> 
> I do think it's interesting that the fact that she went with Krum 
was a
> particular sticking point for Ron.  I think that's a good 
observation.
> It doesn't negate Ron's own feelings for her though; I think it just
> made the situation worse than if she'd gone with Neville or someone
> else.  Hmm ....now I'm curious to know what would have happened in 
this
> case:
> 
> *****************************
> 
> "Hermione, you are a girl .. . . " [changed this line somewhat -- 
assume
> Neville didn't ask Hermione first -- but he did ask Ginny]
> 
> "Oh, well spotted," she said acidly.
> 
> "Well -- you can come with one of us!"
> 
> "What as a last resort?" Hermione retorted furiously.
> 
> "Oh come on," Ron said impatiently, "we need partners, we're going 
to
> look really stupid if we haven't got any, everyone else has ...."
> 
> Hermione's eyes were still flashing dangerously but she shrugged
> slightly.  "Fine," she muttered stiffly.
> 
> "Right," said Ron quickly.  "So, Ginny you can go with Harry 
and . . . .
> "
> 
> "I can't," Ginny muttered, looking utterly miserable.  [I'm assuming
> here that Neville asked Ginny as a first choice rather than 2nd
> choice].  She exits, looking dejected.
> 
> Harry turned to Hermione.  "Great, so you'll come with me then?" 
Harry
> said, relieved that his search for the required dance partner was 
over.
> "I have to have a partner, remember?" he muttered to Ron.  [......]
> 
> **********************
> 
> What would Ron have thought if Hermione had gone with Harry?  One 
point
> I'll make at this stage is that it is interesting that Ron does 
*not*
> specifically ask her to ball.  He at first says, "Well, you can come
> with one of us."  If she had said fine, it would be logical that she
> would have gone with Harry because of his heightened need for a
> partner.  Even Ron would have seen that.  Later in the 
conversation, he
> says, "Okay, okay, *we* know you're a girl.  ... That do?  Will you 
come
> now?"  He's *still* not out & out asking her to be *his* date.
> 
> I like Bbennet's observation that he may have, in the back of his 
mind,
> assumed that they would both go stag and "hang out" at the Ball.
> 
> Anyway, back to the Hermione goes with Harry scenario.  I think 
Ron's
> reactions might have been very interesting, but I don't think the
> post-Ball row would have occurred if she'd gone with Harry.  
Reason: I'm
> still not convinced that Ron said anything personal to Hermione in 
the
> common room.  I think he continued to fling the "consorting with the
> enemy" stance at her just as he had at the Ball (of course, this is 
just
> masking his real feelings but I think he doesn't recognize his 
feelings
> for what they are).  I've said many times before that we don't know 
what
> Ron said to her before Harry enters the room & overhears the last 
bit of
> their row.  But, consider this (a point I don't think I've made):
> 
> ["Well," he spluttered, looking thunderstruck.  "well --- that just
> proves ---- completely missed the point."]
> 
> Okay R/H types: if Ron *did* say something personal ("why didn't 
you go
> to the Ball with me rather than Krum?"), why in the world would he 
think
> she'd missed the point?  Why would he look thunderstruck?
> 
> No -- it seems to me that he said pretty much what he said to her 
at the
> Ball, "You're consorting with the enemy by going with Krum.  How 
could
> you do that to Hogwarts?  To Harry?"  The dialogue we hear from that
> point forward makes sense with that sort of an argument.  It does 
*not*
> make sense to me that he said something like "I asked you -- why 
didn't
> you break your date to go with me?" or anything even remotely 
personal.
> First, he really *didn't* ask her to be *his* date, and second, I 
can't
> imagine why he would say that she'd missed the point if he did say
> something personal to her.
> 
> Harry's observation about Hermione getting the point more than Ron 
had
> is, I think, just making it more clear that Harry himself has 
figured
> out that Ron likes Hermione.  But, her feelings are still a mystery 
to
> us all.
> 
> > ROn wa This is just part of an argument at one sense that is used 
for
> > supporting ROn likes Hermione.  I have a lot of arguments against 
this
> > I suppose b/c I've been in this type of thing with a guy friend of
> > mind.  He acts towards me just like ROn acts towards Hermione and 
I
> > know he doesn't have a crush one me for a fact so I suppose that 
tends
> > to reflect my views.
> 
> Well, to most of us who have fully traversed those adolescent years
> (long ago for many of us), it does appear pretty clear that Ron 
likes
> Hermione.  <shares Bbennett's wink to Star about her "friend">
> 
> But, you can't look at the Yule Ball incident in isolation.  His
> feelings have been becoming increasingly apparent, starting back in 
CoS
> actually.
> 
> See -- I do believe that canon supports the notion that Ron likes
> Hermione.  I just don't believe her feelings are clear either way.  
<g>
> 
> For once the R/H shippers shouldn't be too up & arms about one of my
> shipping posts --
> 
> Penny
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]