Ch. 33 and Voldemort sketch: DE questions

[Hillman, Lee]

No: HPFGUIDX 13731

 
Carole's discussion Questions:
> 
> 1. Why is Lucius Malfoy considered by Voldemort to be a 
> better servant than
> most of the other Death Eaters?

Besides echoing what has already been said about Lucius, I think it's also
worth noting that Dumbledore indicates that Malfoy may have in his
possession some of Tom Riddle's things, most notably the diary, and
therefore it's reasonable to conclude that he is one of the few people who
knows who Voldemort used to be. Voldy called him a friend--a slippery one,
but a friend, nonetheless. I think that while Lucius isn't old enough to
have been at school with Tom Riddle, he has certainly been with him since a
very early date, probably well before his rise to power. (This goes
hand-in-hand with my Lucius Malfoy theories, but I'll save those for an LM
sketch, if one ever comes up.)

> 2. Who are the Lestranges that are serving time in Azkaban?
> 
I think everyone's identified who they are from the Pensieve scene. But what
interests me is who were they? Sirius mentions them as part of Snape's gang
in Slytherin, so presumably one or both are the same age as Snape or near to
it. Also, this is the only instance of a female DE that we know of. We've
only met Narcissa Malfoy briefly, and while Narcissa must be aware of her
husband's activities, we have no idea how she feels about them. And there's
been no suggestion that she's an active participant, either.

<snip qu. 3>

> 4. And of course the eternal question.Why did Voldemort untie 
> Harry and give
> him back his wand?
 
My take on this is not necessarily the Evil Overlord blunder. I believe it
is to impress the DE's, but I think it's also to prove TO HIMSELF that he
can do it. This has been nettling him for a long time, and in his mania, he
can't understand why this silly boy is so all-fired immune to his assaults.
I think he gives Harry back his wand as much to satisfy his own curiosity as
anything else. It's hubris.

[Note that I do not think he knew about Lucius's activity with his diary in
CoS, and there is no connection between the Tom Riddle in the diary and
Voldemort's current incarnation. As far as he knows, this is only the third
time he's faced Harry. He doesn't recount anything in his lecture regarding
the second year.] 

 Amy Z's Discussion Questions:
> 
> 1. What is Voldemort's primary motivation?  To live forever?  To rid 
> the world of the non-pureblood (I know, he doesn't qualify 
> himself--racism knows no logic)?  Sheer lust for power?
> 
I think this falls under the heading, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
As with other genres involving a "dark side" of magic, I believe that in the
Potterverse, the deeper one becomes involved in dark arts, the more one is
enslaved by them. I think at this point, Voldemort has become so mired in
"black" magic that he no longer needs motivation per se. As for the others,
they come to him for a variety of reasons, and I believe he would easily
promise each one whatever they desire to gain their support. Whether he will
deliver is another question entirely. 

Rowling hints that immortality is his ultimate goal, or was when he started
down his path. I think that holds true, but that he will not need his
supporters once he gains what he seeks. Too much of his backstory revolves
around the search for immortality and indestructibility. So I definitely
think that's part of the equation, but at this point, any dark arts
knowledge is something he'll soak up just for its own sake.

There is an argument that he is addicted to being worshipped. However, he
disdains those who submit abjectly (such as Avery and Nott) and respects
those who defer to him, yet stand up to him (such as Lucius Malfoy). He even
tells Harry in SS/PS that he has always valued bravery (ch. 17). As far as
the holy war, I do think it's important to him, but not as important as
personal power and gain. Again, if he can live forever and continue to amass
more knowledge of the dark arts, who cares about the rest of the world?


> 2. Can he be killed?  <snip>
> Voldemort himself surmises that his experiments in immortality were 
> successful enough for him to survive a deflected AK, albeit barely.  
> However, Voldemort also describes his new (post-1995) life as 
> a mortal 
> one, not yet the immortality he's seeking (GF 33).
> 

See above in motivations. Again, it's linked closely to the discussion
questions from Ch. 33 as well.


> 4. Does he have an heir, and does he want one?  (I hate to ask this, 
> but it seems obligatory:) Is he going to prove to be related 
> to anyone 
> we know?
 
I can't see Voldemort wanting to pass his knowledge and/or power on to
anyone else. He's too selfish in all other respects. Also, if immortality is
his ultimate goal, he doesn't need to worry about leaving a legacy.

> 5. Is he your typical Evil Overlord who repeatedly makes unbelievably 
> dumb mistakes, or are we underestimating him?

I think this too is truly linked to the reasons behind why he gave Harry the
wand. But what other mistakes has he made? In SS/PS, he was looking for the
Stone to make himself a new body, the very thing he finally accomplished in
GoF. Neither he nor Quirrell expected Harry to come after him. Quirrell
tried to kill Harry in SS/PS because of his snooping, though I'm sure he
figured Voldemort wouldn't mind if he disposed of his nemesis for him. When
Voldemort does tell Quirrell to let him take over the talking, he still has
to rely on the professor to do the physical work, because of his disembodied
state. He's not directly involved in CoS or PoA. The memory of Tom Riddle
does underestimate Harry, but I concluded that his mistakes derive from the
twin factors of being an imperfect magic item and being based on a cocky
sixteen year old boy.

In GoF, though, it's different. His servants do what they are expected to
do, his plans go well, and he achieves his goal of regaining a body. The
only "mistake" he makes is to give Harry the wand, which, again, I feel is a
matter of pride and personal revenge between them. I doubt he had any idea
that Harry's wand shared its core with his. I certainly have trouble
believing that he would have risked Priori Incantatem if he suspected
anything of the kind.

So exactly what other Evil Overlord blunders has he committed? He hasn't
offered Harry a place by his side, supplanting loyal lieutenants as his
heir; he has an easy identifying mark to check against disguise spells and
so forth; he has exhibited his superiority over his minions and rules by
fear; he certainly hasn't devised elaborate death schemes involving vats of
oil or aligator pits. He's one-dimensional, that I'll concede. But I don't
think we've seen him be active enough yet to determine for sure whether he's
incompetent.

MMMfanfic made a comment that I'd also like to address:
> It would be strange if the entire year of Slytherins all become Death 
> Eaters. (which seems to be the case with Snape's year, as Sirius has 
> implied)  That, seriously, would make one doubt the value of a 
> Hogwarts education.  I can understand how two or three may become DE 
> but the 'entire gang'?  Even if we take the 'bad seeds' approach 
> (i.e. all Slytherins are destined to become Dark Witches and Wizards, 
> which even a 12 year-old can't believe.), it's just extreme to think 
> that DE=Slytherin.  (I look forward to a non-Slytherin DE, someone 
> other than that pathetic rat, Wormtail, who show us, so far, no trait 
> of a Gryffindor.)

I find this an interesting concept as well. I think that at Voldy's height,
there Were Voldy supporters (or at least those who were prejudiced against
Mudbloods) who weren't in Slytherin, and I think there are also Slytherins
who are just as upstanding as Gryffindors. The points about why the dark
appeals to different personalities are well taken, I think. Bravery and
loyalty and cleverness can still lead to doing the wrong things for the
right reasons. What Rowling has said repeatedly is that "nearly all the
wizards who've gone bad have been from Slytherin." I don't think it's
necessarily a breeding ground for bad wizards, but the essential trait of a
Slytherin, IMO, is that Slytherins are willing to do "whatever it takes" to
succeed. Their ambition is paramount, and it usually takes the form of
sneakiness. While one has to assume that there are safeguards against
cheating outright (c.f. the magic quills in SS/PS), Slytherins are much more
likely to manipulate the situation to their advantage than other houses. The
evidence so far suggests that a Gryffindor will break the rules if it's for
a good cause. A Slytherin will bend them or get around them if possible if
it advances a personal agenda. I doubt Hufflepuffs would have it in them to
break a rule outright, nor for that matter Ravenclaws. But I can easily see
any of them being seduced by the easy, attractive promises of dark wizardry,
given the right set of circumstances.

Gwen (getting out the fireproof shield)